izzywhit Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 I have owned a 5year old Elddis Autoquest 100 from new and the aluminium body panels on both sides of the motorhome have corroded through. The first evidence of this happening is that a small blemish appears that will not come out with washing then eventually a small hole appears and there a 3 or 4 of these holes now. I contacted Elddis and because the van is now more than 3 years old they are not interested saying that the paintwork must have become contaminated, but this is not true as the holes appear from within as thought there are some internal fastenings which are reacting with the aluminium. Has anyone else experienced this occurrence or is mine an isolated case. I look forward to any feedback on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Have you any pictures?.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzywhit Posted September 6, 2013 Author Share Posted September 6, 2013 Here are some pictures pelmetman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Well......next time buy european where a proper 6 year warranty pretty standard.... *-) try trading standards route and the letter can be downloaded from web. under sales of goods act goods have to be fit for purpose, of merchantable quality, plus the enforceable ACT good for 6 years, so I would think you have a good case...simply dont put up with being fobbed off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzywhit Posted September 6, 2013 Author Share Posted September 6, 2013 The photos I have are too big I'll have to try and compress them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Probably galvanic corrosion, especially if other metals are in the vicinity. Like to see the pics, and could do with knowing more about the exact location and proximity / type of metal fixings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 We had some spots of corrosion/pitting occur on the lower rear panel of the '07 Compass120 that we had.. ..and neither the dealer,Discover(..who were a F***in' shambles!!)nor Compass or Elddis or what ever they called 'em selves then, were of any use!... In the end, after months of waiting for the warranty claim to progress and much faffin' about, I told 'em both in no uncertain terms, that they could shove the prospect of any future purchase from me, where the sun doesn't shine..8o| We got shot of it and traded it in at Highbridge (got a decent enough price to be honest)... Sorry, probably not the "enlightening" tale you were after.... ;-) Crinkly'...ours was about 2" up from the base of the panel, so I suppose low enough to be caused by road salts/crud (..although the bottom return-lip was fine..?)and it did appear as if it was coming from the inside-out... As the panel only seemed like a "loose" skin over ply(and not a "bonded from the supplier" panel)I did at one time suspect that it may've been caused by burs (or even a panel pin/screw?) that may've been trapped between the panels...? But road crud/salts were probably the favourite though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Damp, rotting timber produces a chemical which attacks the aluminium from behind exactly as you describe. I would suspect you have a leak somewhere above the affected area and the timber battens in the MH wall are rotting away and eating into the aluminium. It was a common fault on older timber (then mainly ash) framed cars, typically 1920's or 30's. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzywhit Posted September 6, 2013 Author Share Posted September 6, 2013 Here are some pics some of the holes are a few inches from the bottom of the panel and others are just above the rubbing strip about a foot from the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzywhit Posted September 6, 2013 Author Share Posted September 6, 2013 Keith, Your explanation sounds feasible as I once had Lowdhams looking at my van for a quote and the saleswoman looked at the back for what she said could be untreated rotting wood. Is it possible for a firm like Elddis to use untreated wood in motorhome construction ? Ian (izzywhit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Blimey!...that's a bit of a mess Ian, isn't it.. 8-) Ours was nowhere near that bad(..probably similar the right hand blemish in your first pic'). ..and yes, I would say that is indeed possible(probable?) that a manufacturer uses untreated timber/sheets... How ever you progress with it, if dealing with the manufacturer, I wish you luck... (..at one stage, there was talk of them(the dealer) just re-skinning over the faulty panel, without removing it!? ..it was at this point that I told them where to go!... ;-) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Yep looks like corrosion from inside out...........but on a 5 year old van 8-)......... As Pepe said re-skinning over the top is the likely fix, although the cause will need sorting first ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Ian, are you sure your van is 5 years old? I only ask because I've been looking at 2007 and 2008 Autoquest 100s for sale (trying to identify the areas the pictures illustrate), and none of them have any dark banding as appears in your second pic, just a thin stripe. Just made me wonder if the actual year of manufacture I was assuming (2013 - 5 = 2008) might be suspect. I assume the top pic is against the gas locker door and the lower pic just ahead of the rear wing on the offside? If so, this places both areas of corrosion below the large side window, which is itself just below the point where the roof will deliver substantial amounts of water - especially if normally parked slightly nose down and inclined to the offside. If my conjecture is correct, I would suspect there is leakage in the area around that window. The corrosion appears to be following a horizontal line, suggesting framing in the wall at those levels. This would be consistent with the presence of the screwed on "rubbing strake", which would need a wall frame at that level to receive the screws. By the gas locker, it will presumably be the lower frame in the wall. Because the corrosion is above the supposed frames, it seggests to me that water has penetrated from above (i.e. the window) and settled onto the top of the frame, wetting it, and releasing whatever agent has corroded the aly skin. However, whether or not the above is correct, the obvious question is whether you have had the van damp tested on a regular basis? If not, I would suggest you have one carried out at the earliest opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 The 'dark banding' in pic.2 looks like the black line on my '08 Elddis as far as I can tell - so I think that the year is probably correct. The 'rubbing strake' is exactly at floor level and covers the join between the lower edge of the wall panel and the aluminium lower skirt so, yes, the corrosion in pic.2 would appear to align with the lower frame of the wall panel where it attaches to the edge of the floor. The other possibility for water ingress would be a poorly sealed wheel arch liner allowing water and road salt to be driven in from below as it is thrown off the spinning wheel. This area of the floor, both just ahead or just behind the wheelarch does gets a good drenching on wet roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs T Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Mr T says Cripes that is a mess. There's certainly something seriously amiss there either in the construction or where its been standing or the age. This type of damage is not repairable and should never have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Mrs T - 2013-09-06 7:43 PM Mr T says Cripes that is a mess. There's certainly something seriously amiss there either in the construction or where its been standing or the age. This type of damage is not repairable and should never have happened. I think Mr T has spent to much time submerged 8-)................As I suspect there's quite a few motorhome and caravan repairers that would disagree ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Mrs T - 2013-09-06 7:43 PM This type of damage is not repairable and should never have happened. Sorry to disagree but it is repairable! It just has to be done correctly and the cause of the leak fixed at the same time. I do however agree that it should never have happened but unfortunately that's life! I imagine it will not be cheap to fix as to completely remove the offending rotting wood will either entail removal of the aluminium skin OR interior trim and insulation. Neither will be for the faint hearted! Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Steve928 - 2013-09-06 7:20 PM The 'dark banding' in pic.2 looks like the black line on my '08 Elddis as far as I can tell - so I think that the year is probably correct. The 'rubbing strake' is exactly at floor level and covers the join between the lower edge of the wall panel and the aluminium lower skirt so, yes, the corrosion in pic.2 would appear to align with the lower frame of the wall panel where it attaches to the edge of the floor. The other possibility for water ingress would be a poorly sealed wheel arch liner allowing water and road salt to be driven in from below as it is thrown off the spinning wheel. This area of the floor, both just ahead or just behind the wheelarch does gets a good drenching on wet roads. Yes I agree..just taken a look at some photos of the 120 we had and they are similar.. ..although the lower panel seemed to be just a skin over ply, above that they appeared to be ribbed, "corrugated"/rolled sections.. so just what would be involved in a full strip I have no idea. I do know that when I was chasing Compass(Explorer?)and Discover, neither were keen(or seemed competent enough!)to proceed with anything like such a task anyway.... You could always spend the next umpteen months going around in circles with them(unreturned calls etc)trying to get things sorted..or you could just bite the bullet,source a decent little independent body shop who could cut out the bad, make good and spray in..and check/reseal any seams,windows... ,,,and then get shot of it.... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Then, if the year is OK, what needs to be investigated is whether the cause is water ingress, so that damp check is urgently needed. If the check confirms water ingress, there will be little point pursuing either the seller or the manufacturer, as it is outside the warranty period. If the van has regularly been checked and the damp wasn't previously detected, there may be grounds for claiming negligence on the part of whoever carried out the check/s, but one would first have to see what the terms of the damp check are. Easily and quickly established by reading the certificate. But, the urgent thing is to implement repairs as quickly as possible, as it can only get worse and winter looms. It may be the rot has not progressed that far, as the position of the corrosion suggests to me that damp has got at the tops of whatever rails are involved, but has possibly not progressed that much further. The truth will not be revealed until some opening up has been carried out. There will be a deal of dismantling around the dinette to expose the extent of damage/rot. It may be possible to save money by undertaking this work one's self, by agreement with the repairer. The area will then need to be dried out and the extent of any rot assessed, and probably some timber will need to be replaced. New wallboard will be required on the inside and the source of the ingress identified. If it is not possible to replace just a lower panel externally, the usual technique seems to be to over-skin the entire wall with a new sheet bonded to the original. All this can be done. It will be costly, but is unlikely to be write-off costly, and when completed the van should be restored to its full market value. At present, its value is seriously impaired. The OP could try offering it in p/x against a different van to see what value is offered, and comparing that value to the asking prices of similar vans to gauge whether to repair or accept a low trade-in. In either event, unfortunately, there will be a cost. However, unless what is revealed is an absolute disaster, which as the damp (assuming it is damp) seems not to have manifested internally I doubt will be the case, it should be eminently repairable, but it should go to a specialist for evaluation. Lets hope it turns out not to be too serious, and in the meantime let's try to avoid any more instant and unwarranted assertions that it is a write-off. They help no-one. It is quite depressing enough for the OP as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 One point that I forgot to mention is that, presuming the OP's Elddis' windows are the same model as mine, it is an easy process to check them for water ingress. The window frame is a rubber U section that simply fits around the van wall with a mastic sealing tape between the van's outer skin and the one side of the U. From inside the van, with the window open, the rubber frame can be pealed back by hand to reveal the van wall and any damp coming from that source would be fairly obvious. For full access around the entire frame some of the window fittings will first need to be unscrewed as the screws pass through the frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Just for information, damp wood gives off Acetic Acid, and it is this that attacks the aluminium. Any dissimilar metals in the area can add to the problem by setting up an electrolytic cell. This has been known in the caravan/motorhome manufacturing world for over 50 years, but hey, it's cheap and easy to use wooden frames, maybe a bit of corrosive silicone mastic thrown in for good measure. It demonstrates a total disregard for customer satisfaction and long life of products. None of this helps with the problem, I know, but maybe anyone researching a new or second hand motorhome might read this and ask the very important question "What is the frame made of?" H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 hallii - 2013-09-07 12:38 PM ...but hey, it's cheap and easy to use wooden frames, maybe a bit of corrosive silicone mastic thrown in for good measure.... It demonstrates a total disregard for customer satisfaction and long life of products. H Exactly...Ours must've only been around three years old when started showing signs off pitting(...bought second hand at approx 18months)...and there was some bubbling/delamination on the battery locker door,now I come to think of it.... And if I'm honest, whilst not wishing to speak ill of anyone's pride and joy, I disliked the thing from very early on(although the OH loved it!).On the face of it, it was a tidy,neat little unit, but you didn't need to poke about or crawl around underneath too much to find out that it was cheap'n'nasty, with rough finished soft wood battens on show,just staple gunned together...pipework and rats nests of wiring, chaffing on cabinet carcasses etc.. So heaven knows what the stuff out of sight is like!?... 8-) It certainly wasn't the type of vehicle that I'd expect to be able to pull apart after 5 years use, without it causing more problems than it'd solve....! I know my earlier "get shot of it" comment,may've sounded a bit flippant(..and I suppose it was fuelled as much by my experience with Discover Leisure, as it was the actual van itself)... The OP(Ian)may well fall lucky, by sending off the odd letter to the right people(Trading Standards?)and ends up getting the timber frame replaced and panel re-skinned,so it's all lovely and new again.... On the other hand, as I said earlier, they could very well spend months chasing this up..going backwards and forwards,between dealer and manufacturer (with the usual "..he's not at his desk.."/"..he's in a meeting, he'll call you back.."/"..he doesn't work Tuesdays.."/ "..who are you?..you're not on our system.." fob offs! *-) )... Life's too short, to be turning what is an "entry level" van, into a "project"..... As I posted earlier, if it was me, I'd just get it tidied up...check/reseal any seams...and then either use it for what it is or trade it in whilst it's still relatively young.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 and while your considering...Just get a letter of under the sales of goods act giving 14 days to resolve the issue....don't be fobbed of with excuses, show them you know your rights. If it comes from a solicitor even better.... http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/action/letter-to-get-a-refund-if-your-item-is-faulty-/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theoneshow/consumer/2009/07/03/sale_of_goods_act_letter_downl.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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