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Location: Autocruise Starlet II Peugeot 2.2hdi 2006. | In the home that is - not in the van!
Does anyone have any experience of before and after with domestic water softeners of any type please?
Many thanks.
Oh yes - I've already tried beating hard water with a meat tenderiser mallet to soften it but it does not help! |
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| Tracker - 2010-07-30 2:34 PM
In the home that is - not in the van!
Does anyone have any experience of before and after with domestic water softeners of any type please?
Many thanks.
Oh yes - I've already tried beating hard water with a meat tenderiser mallet to soften it but it does not help!
But remember that beating hard water with a meat tenderiser mallet to soften it is not the wrong way to do it, it's just different.
Edited by malc d 2010-07-30 3:09 PM
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Location: Cheshire. Autosleeper Symbol 2004 | We use a Britta filter thingy...not sure if it is the same as softener.We have one at home and one in the van...not sure I could taste the difference,but my girlfriend thinks it is great |
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| robkilby - 2010-07-30 8:18 PM
We use a Britta filter thingy...not sure if it is the same as softener.We have one at home and one in the van...not sure I could taste the difference,but my girlfriend thinks it is great
Water filters are just that - filters.
We've been using one at home for years, and it must be taking something out of the water because we've never had any scale in the kettle since we started using it.
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Expert
Posts: 2799
Location: Boston Linc's. 2007 Burstner Marano T640 | Comfort works well.
About as stupid as beating it with a mallet. |
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Regular Visitor
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| Tracker - 2010-07-30 2:34 PM
Does anyone have any experience of before and after with domestic water softeners of any type please?
A lot depends on IF you need to filter or not.
First thing to check is the type of water you have where you live. Is it hard or is it soft? Simply contact your supplier and they will tell you. In my case I live in a VERY hard water area.
If a serious coffee drinker (as I used to be but had to give it up), then you most certainly WILL need to filter if living in a hard water area. I used to run two Gaggia machines which cost over £300 each and if I didn't filter the water, the pipes in the machines would scale up and become totally blocked in less than a month. Servicing these machines used to cost £60 a time, but that didn't allow for descaling. If they found the machine was badly scaled up that meant an expensive job of replacing the pipes and in some cases, the head.
So the question you have to ask yourself is 1) do I live in a hard water area, and 2) if so, just what is it i'm wanting to protect?
If you are simply boiling water for tea, scaling up of a kettle is no big deal and can easily be dealt with and personally buying filters to pre-filter the water simply isn't worth the cost.
The filters I used were Kenwood cartridges available in most supermarkets. Alternatively you can buy purpose built softeners but they start at around £300.
http://www.ukwatersofteners.co.uk/
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Location: Autocruise Starlet II Peugeot 2.2hdi 2006. | Thanks BG.
We are moving to a very hard water area shortly and I want to protect expensive bits of kit like central heating system and washing machine from furring up as well as the domestic pipework and kettles coffee makers etc.
I am also aware of the alleged health benefits of drinking harder water so what I have in mind is to use one of they there magnetic devices that allegedly conditions the water to reduce limescale build up whilst at the same time not altering the water for drinking?
Something along these lines maybe?
http://www.waterimp.co.uk/ |
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Location: Fareham Hampshire | Hi Rich
We have one of the Magnetic "Thingys" I think it helps, as very hard water in our area. Not to much scum on the kettle.
we had a "proper" water filter, where you have to fill with salt, and it flushed out once a day, in our previous house, they were expensive then (may be cheaper now).It was fitted about 20 years ago Probably not a good idea if you are on a water meter. God luck with the move
Pauline |
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Location: Autocruise Starlet II Peugeot 2.2hdi 2006. | Thanks Pauline - anecdotal evidence seems to suggest that the electro magnetic water conditioner thingies that are powered by a mains transformer do work better than just a magnetic add on. |
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| Hi I think you may be under a misconception the multitude of gadgets that attatch or have water passing through ceramic magnets are not water softeners they only reduce the ability for lime particles to adhere to your applances. Here in Suffolk the water is so hard and the additives put into the water by the water company is capable of leaching the lead out of brass hence all cylinders had to be manufactured without using brazing for the seams or they fail after less than 10years. If you want soft water only a reverse osmosis softener will work (one you put salt tablets in) they are reasonably priced now and need little servicing. I fiited mine about 6years ago and exept for the rising price of salt it pays for itself. My taps etc. are gold plated ( no not rich just a plumber and got everything trade and fitted it myself) and would not have coped with the local water. Just make sure that you have one tap that is not treated as its not advised to use the softened water as drinking water. John  |
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Location: Autocruise Starlet II Peugeot 2.2hdi 2006. | Thanks John - sorry but I didn't make it apparent that I am aware of the difference between a water softener and a water conditioner - even if I don't yet fully understand the processes involved after so many years living in soft water areas!
I don't want soft water per se - I just want to reduce or avoid furring and limescale deposits in expensive kit in the hope that the cost of installing either a conditioner or a softener will go some way to paying for itself both financially in reduced maintenance costs and emmotionally in not having to faff about getting repairs - usually at the most inconvenient of times - Soddes Law being what it is!
On that basis an electro magnetic conditioner is much less expensive than a reverse osmosis softener - but only if it actually works?
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Location: Bedfordshire, T25 diy | We live in a hard water area.
Dishwasher has the 'normal' salt added to soften water.
Washing m/c is not much affected as we rarely use 'boil' wash.
In the old house the heating is indirect with top tank so hardness of water has little effect and we rarely use immersion heater.
In new house the combi boiler is protected by Aquadial to stop it furring up, advice from plumber was "don't leave it more than one year to change canister", which reminds me I need to do it tomorrow. |
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| Tracker - 2010-07-31 5:22 PM
Thanks BG.
We are moving to a very hard water area shortly and I want to protect expensive bits of kit like central heating system and washing machine from furring up as well as the domestic pipework and kettles coffee makers etc.
Central heating pipes should be fine and ok unless small bore. I had a new combi fitted a couple of years back and the warranty required the plumber to flush through the entire radiator sytem with some kind of fluid before fitting the boiler. All was ok and according to the plumber the old boiler was at least 25 years old.
Washing machine?
I've had the same one for over ten years now. Gets used once a week every week and i've never put any descalant in it ever. Works fine.
Kettles you can forget about as they are that cheap now they are made to chuck in the bin.
Coffee machines are a different story as pointed out in my previous post. If it's a machine working from pressurised water (ie not a filter jug type), then filtering is an absolute must. |
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Location: Charente/France 2002 Laika 7.1G Ducato | Bulletguy - 2010-08-01 3:12 AM
Tracker - 2010-07-31 5:22 PM
Thanks BG.
We are moving to a very hard water area shortly and I want to protect expensive bits of kit like central heating system and washing machine from furring up as well as the domestic pipework and kettles coffee makers etc.
Washing machine?
I've had the same one for over ten years now. Gets used once a week every week and i've never put any descalant in it ever. Works fine.
Kettles you can forget about as they are that cheap now they are made to chuck in the bin.
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You must be joking. Where we live we would have to have a new kettle every week. We use a filter jug for the water for the kettle and the coffee machine, bottled water for drinking and we have had 4 dishwashers and 2 washers in 9 years. When we moved here we also put a de-scaler on the incoming cold water pipes. If you run a glass of cold water from the tap you can see the calcaire (limescale) in the glass. |
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Location: East Sussex. Motorhome = 2007 Hobby Van T500GFSC. | I think you need to take some advice from the local water supplier. Some areas have relatively localised sources, so the degree, and type, of hardness can vary considerably between places. Other areas have more of a water network, so that water from a number of sources is mixed. Of those that mix, the hardness can vary throughout the year depending on what is in the mix (combinations of ground-water to reservoir sources). Ours is hard, but not particularly aggressive. Soft scale is a bit of a problem, hard scale accumulates slowly but not too badly. When we lived in north Kent the water was so aggressive the taps had to be re-seated every six months or so, because the water leached zinc from the brass leaving pitting that let water by. We had a new "combi" boiler three years back and apart from adding a permanent magnet type softener, no more was required. The cold to the rest of the house is untreated. If I were going to a really hard and aggressive water area I would consider treating all incoming water, except drinking water, with a permanent plant, but adding a magnetic type to the drinking supply to control build up in kettles/coffee makers etc. This is less important if the heating system is sealed type, because there is little to no make-up water, and what circulates is dosed. However, combis do scale up, so with really bad water, proper treatment should pay off. It is really a case of horses for courses, and specific advice is the only key to getting the most cost effective remedy for a given supply. |
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Location: Autocruise Starlet II Peugeot 2.2hdi 2006. | Many thanks Brian for a balanced and informative point of view and I'll talk to to the water board before I do anything else. |
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Location: West Sussex. With a Merc. | Move to the Surrey / Sussex area, 81 years and never had a problem. |
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| Bulletguy - 2010-08-01 3:12 AM
Kettles you can forget about as they are that cheap now they are made to chuck in the bin.
Randonneur - 2010-08-01 11:44 AM
You must be joking. Where we live we would have to have a new kettle every week. We use a filter jug for the water for the kettle and the coffee machine, bottled water for drinking and we have had 4 dishwashers and 2 washers in 9 years. When we moved here we also put a de-scaler on the incoming cold water pipes. If you run a glass of cold water from the tap you can see the calcaire (limescale) in the glass.
I'm not actually.
A kettle simply has a heating element inside, often now under a plate in the base, and of course can be bought for less than a fiver. There is nothing in a kettle for 'calc' to seriously affect or block unlike coffee machines with small brass boilers and tiny copper piping, not to mention the shower heads.
Four dishwashers and two washers in the space of nine years would suggest to me that either you have a very large family (heavy use), or are doing something quite seriously wrong! |
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| Using filtered water to drink is not just about furring up the kettle.
It's also about not drinking the chemicals that cause your kettle to fur up.
Edited by malc d 2010-08-01 8:58 PM
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| Whoops double posting !
Edited by malc d 2010-08-01 8:57 PM
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Location: West Sussex. With a Merc. | Not quite about water softners but... drinking or eating chemicals doesn't bother me one little bit, we're all made of chemicals and if we avoid drinking or eating them then the body makes them.
Too much purification sounds great but its not neccesarily perfection, and if the body has too many or the undesirable types its quite capable of rejecting them.
The body is a wonderful piece of equipment, study its makeup and it will serve you well, remember the theory that Billy Connolly holds dear to his survival ,,,,,,,,,,,,,
art |
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Location: Cheshire. Autosleeper Symbol 2004 | art338 - 2010-08-01 9:16 PM
Not quite about water softners but... drinking or eating chemicals doesn't bother me one little bit, we're all made of chemicals and if we avoid drinking or eating them then the body makes them.
Too much purification sounds great but its not neccesarily perfection, and if the body has too many or the undesirable types its quite capable of rejecting them.
The body is a wonderful piece of equipment, study its makeup and it will serve you well, remember the theory that Billy Connolly holds dear to his survival ,,,,,,,,,,,,,
art
It was studying the make up of certain bodies that led to my computer virus !! |
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Location: West Sussex. With a Merc. | I'll remember to avoid that path then. |
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