upper marker light

[buck111]

on my bessacarr 410 motorhome my front marker light has gone,its an led bulb,how do i replace it.do i just pull the wires through.it is on the top front passenger side any help appreciated

[Derek Uzzell]

For a definitive answer, your best bet is probably to inquire on Swift Talk

 

http://www.swift-talk.co.uk/main/authorization/signIn?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.swift-talk.co.uk%2F

 

I assume the high-level position-light is of the type shown in the 3rd photo on this link

 

http://www.chelstononline.co.uk/2010-bessacarr-e410-sn8504-used-motorhome-931.html

 

I'm not sure how far you've got with this task. If the lights have no mechanical fixing (ie. they are not screwed to the over-cab GRP moulding, then they are probably a push-fit with sealant being used for weather-proofing. However they are fixed, you'll need to pull the light out and disconnect the cables that lead to it. There should be cable connectors on, or close to, the light-unit.

 

As LED lights are fairly reliable, it would be as well to test the light that has 'failed' before replacing it as there's always the possibility that the reason it is no longer illuminating is due to a wiring fault rather than than the light-unit itself.

 

[buck111]

now we have really gone and done it.the marker light was fixed with screws which i have taken out.then on trying to pull the wire through to get to the connectors one of the connectors has come off and i cannot now see it to get to it through the hole.i know i can get a replacement light but i am really stuck as how to get to the connector that has come off short of smashing the paneling inside the van roof box. can anyone help please

[Brian Kirby]

I assume you have one wire still connected, with the other disconnected and its mating end out of sight? If correct, and you can't see the end that has escaped, then unless someone knows another way, I think your best be will be to try to fish for it with a strongish piece of garden wire. I think you need to make an open loop at the end of the piece of garden wire so that you can slide that down the electrical wire you do have, to see if you can catch and draw back the offending escaped free end.

 

Most light feeds will comprise a pair of wires, positive and ground, and the two are likely to be in some kind of outer protective sheath until fairly close to the final connector. If you can fish back past the connector to the outer sheath, you should eventually be able to catch up the lost wire, and pull it gently back through the hole in the overcab moulding. But it will be a patience trying fiddle, so good luck.

[buck111]

thanks for your reply,i will try that tomorrow.the wire has come out so far in a sheath but after it disconnected there is a thin black wire which i can just see but this will not come out any further.so i think i am looking for a thin red wire,can you tell me if i fail to fix the problem can i disconnect and blank off these lights or do i have to use the lights by law

[Derek Uzzell]

I believe the UK requirement for high-level 'position lights' only applies to Class 5 vehicles and your motorhome will be Class 4. In principle then you should legally be OK blanking off the lights, but you might have problems at MOT time or (less likely) with the police when driving. Best if you can fish the disconnected wire out so that the light can be operational.

 

Brian has suggested a piece of looped wire as a tool, but you might try wrapping a 'clump' of duct-tape around the end of a piece of wire that might stick to the escaped cable. First thing to do, though, is to tie something to the wire that hasn't disappeared so that doesn't also go missing. I shouldn't worry about cable-colouring - it's quite likely that both cables leading to the light will be black.

 

(When I worked in the building trade I remember someone dropping an expensive chisel inside a cavity-wall that was being built. The bricklayer had an expensive powerful magnet on a string for such eventualities. He lowered the magnet into the cavity, picked up the chisel and, as he lifted both up through the cavity, the magnet came off its string. I learnt a lot of new expletives that day!)

[Robinhood]

Derek Uzzell - 2014-04-27 9:32 AM

 

I believe the UK requirement for high-level 'position lights' only applies to Class 5 vehicles and your motorhome will be Class 4.

 

.....AFAIK, under the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations, the requirement for "end outline marker lamps" (as they are termed) applies, to (with some minor, and in this case irrelevant, exceptions) allvehicles with a width greater than 2.1m.

 

Which is why they are fitted to many/most motorhomes.

 

Whether or not it gets picked up at MOT time may be a matter of luck, but again, AFAIK, all "obligatory" lights must work to pass an MOT.

 

I think the OP's best chance of locating the loose end is by "fishing" as Brian has suggested.

 

Failing this, I'd have a go at locating the other end of the wiring at an accessible interior point, and judge whether "tying-on" to the still accessible external "tail" and pulling through a replacement wire that can be joined at that (accessible) point would be possible.

[tonyishuk]

Pop down to Halfords for a pickup claw

 

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_567003_langId_-1_categoryId_255216

 

Rgds

[Fred Duck]

To revive this very old thread, I have a similar problem to that of the OP. The front upper marker lights are a four bank LED unit that is fixed by two screws to the over cab. My off side unit is down to one lit LED and, on the face of it, replacement should be simple and I have a new unit. However, once the two fixing screws are removed, the LED unit pulls out maybe 1/8" or so and that's it. It's like it's been fitted before the inner linings to the overcab have been fitted with the wiring cut short. No access whatsoever from inside as it's fully paneled. Pulling on the thing too hard risks what happened to the OP in that if the wiring detaches from the LED unit it will disappear. Many vans seem to have a similar set up so I can't be alone in trying to find a solution and any hints or information as to how to proceed will be welcomed.

 

FD

[Fred Duck]

Top picture is the marker light as fitted, bottom picture the replacement

[Derek Uzzell]

See my posting of 18 November 2014 9:22 AM on this elderly forum thread

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Hobby-pre-installed-reversing-camera-wires-/36673/

[Fred Duck]

Thanks, Derek. I think we're of the same view. In researching this issue, I found a post on an Autotrail forum about replacing these marker lights. That said that the lights and their wiring were fitted on the van they were discussing prior to the over cab insulation being fitted meaning that the wiring was, in effect, glued to the over cab's inner face making replacement all but impossible.

 

I note the suggestion that the lights be replaced with reflectors. Looking at photos of various vans on web sites, some models don't have these front marker lights at all. The do, however, look to have marker lights fitted to the sides to the rear with a clear lens facing forward and a red lens facing to the rear. If I could find definite proof that the front marker lights weren't a legal requirement I'd solve my problem by removing them. However, that's a route from which there's no way back so I'm cautious to say the least.

 

FD

[Keithl]

Fred Duck - 2022-03-28 11:40 AM

 

If I could find definite proof that the front marker lights weren't a legal requirement I'd solve my problem by removing them.

FD,

 

They are a legal requirement under the Construction and Use Regulations on any vehicle over a certain width. You either have to have white lights at the front and red lights at the rear, both above a stated height off the ground OR a combined white and red light somewhere along the side, again above a stated height off the ground.

 

I will find the actual regulation later and post here.

 

Keith.

[Derek Uzzell]

The UK MOT requirements for "end-outline marker lamps" were stated in my posting of 18 March 2022 7:41 AM in this recent forum thread

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Compass-Avantagarde-Side-marker-lights/59802/

 

The potential problem for motorhomes that only have 'combined' end-marker lights that are positioned near the vehicle's rear is that they are usually at a height where the light from one of the white lens that face forwards will often be obscured if an awning is fitted.

 

The attached photo (copied from this 2019 forum thread)

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/MOT/51124/

 

shows a Rapido 640F's combined end-outline marker light just in front of an awning's casing. This MAY be OK in this instance as at least some of the rearwards-facing red part of the light should still be visible from behind the motorhome, but there are cases where an awning casing pretty much obscures the marker light's visibility from one direction.

[Keithl]

FD,

 

The 'end-outline marker lamps' are detailed in the 'The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989' here...

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/13/made

 

and are mandatory for vehicles over 2,100 mm in width.

[Fred Duck]

Many thanks, both, for the replies. It's now clear that the marker lights are mandatory so the reflector idea doesn't work. I'm left with the potential of an MOT failure (thankfully, MOT not due until 2023) on something that should be a simple fix but, in reality, can't be fixed without major surgery or modification. I can't imagine I'm the first to have this problem and there must be a fix out there somewhere.

 

FD

[Derek Uzzell]

It might help if you provided identification details of your motorhome, just in case removal of the light is a known problem.

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/-IDENTIFYING-YOUR-MOTORHOME-/54713/

 

As your present light has failed, rather than try to remove it using brute force and risk causing damage to the wires inside the motorhome where they might be unreachable, you might be better smashing the present light to pieces so that you can get at its wiring and connect the new light’s wires to the old wires. It’s still a risk, but what other choice do you have?

 

[Fred Duck]

Thanks, Derek. Our van is a 2010 Bessacarr E410 as noted under each of my postings. I think the OP's van was the same as referred to in his original post. I will use the link you've provided to make that more obvious. I think you might have made the only possible suggestion as to repair but it is a route from which there is no way back if it doesn't work but, as you say, without any better suggestion, what other option do I have.

 

FD

[rayc]

Derek Uzzell - 2022-03-29 12:01 PM

 

It might help if you provided identification details of your motorhome, just in case removal of the light is a known problem.

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/-IDENTIFYING-YOUR-MOTORHOME-/54713/

 

As your present light has failed, rather than try to remove it using brute force and risk causing damage to the wires inside the motorhome where they might be unreachable, you might be better smashing the present light to pieces so that you can get at its wiring and connect the new light’s wires to the old wires. It’s still a risk, but what other choice do you have?

I was going to suggest this but I thought the red wire had become detached and was somewhere back in the roof lining?

[Derek Uzzell]

Fred Duck - 2022-03-29 12:08 PM

 

Thanks, Derek. Our van is a 2010 Bessacarr E410 as noted under each of my postings...

 

FD

 

In this 2019 forum thread I asked forum members not to identify their motorhome via the forum's 'signature' feature as this method conflicts with the option not to view signatures.

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/iDENTIFY-YOUR-MOTORHOME-/51714/

 

And in a 2017 thread I said

 

IDENTIFYING YOUR MOTORHOME

 

May I ask forum-members (new or long-standing) who participate on this forum to use the “Forums Control Panel” feature and provide in the ”Location” box of their Profile basic details of the motorhome they own (if they actually own one of course!) Make, exact model and year of manufacture should be enough - use your initiative.

 

A forum-member’s Profile allows creation of a ‘signature’ that has the potential to appear beneath every posting that the member makes, and some members have included details of their motorhome within their signature. This is not the best place to provide that information, however, as the Profile also includes a YES/NO option "View other people's signatures?” and this option defaults to NO.

 

Sampling postings suggests that most forum-members do not create a signature and, although it is not practicable to identify how many forum-members deliberately choose not to view other people’s signatures, as NO is is the default choice it’s likely that, if you do create a signature, your signature will be invisible. Feel free to create wondrous/hilarious/profound signatures, but keep in mind that most forum-members probably won’t see them and, if your motorhome details are embedded in your signature, they won’t see those details either.

 

Some forum-members put motorhome identification data in their Profile’s “Interests” box. This is OK, but it still means that, if a motorhome has not been identified in a posting, the forum-member’s Profile needs to be looked at in the hope that the information may be present there. Exploiting the Profile’s “Location” box avoids this.

 

So, if you are happy to provide your current motorhome’s basic details (and obviously you don’t HAVE to do this!) it’s best to use your Profile’s “Location” box as the information you put in that box will always be visible on your postings.

 

(It would also be worth forum-members checking their Profile for accuracy, as some of the information I’ve seen (like email addresses and website-related entries) on Profiles is clearly incorrect.)

 

The 2020 "IDENTIFYING YOUR MOTORHOME" thread now at the top of the Motorhome Matters forum homepage is a distillation of the many other earlier requests for motorhome identification and - rather than muddy the waters by mentioning Signatures and Interests - I just said "please stick to using the “Location” box method.".

 

(I see that you've now 'conformed ;-) - thanks for doing that.)

[Fred Duck]

rayc - 2022-03-29 12:15 PM

 

I was going to suggest this but I thought the red wire had become detached and was somewhere back in the roof lining?

 

That was the Original Poster, Ray back in 2014. I revived an old thread on the basis that the OP's problem was exactly that I have now. If nothing else, seems I need to find a supply of large brave pills!!

 

FD

[rayc]

Fred Duck - 2022-03-29 1:48 PM

 

rayc - 2022-03-29 12:15 PM

 

I was going to suggest this but I thought the red wire had become detached and was somewhere back in the roof lining?

 

That was the Original Poster, Ray back in 2014. I revived an old thread on the basis that the OP's problem was exactly that I have now. If nothing else, seems I need to find a supply of large brave pills!!

 

FD

I see you can get it out a little. This should allow you to break the plastic up and hopefully get to the wiring. Someone used to using a soldering iron should be able to tack a new lamp to the existing wires and insulate them.

[Derek Uzzell]

The lights are JOKON PL-24 2 (Part Number 13.5021.000) and (apparently) are available in 12V or 24V versions. They were fitted to some Bessacarr motorhomes and also to Pilote and LeVoyageur models.

 

The light is waterproofed and the attached side-on photo indicates that the power cable is sealed into the 'stub' on the back of the light's base. Presumably there's a small PCB inside the light that carries the four LEDs, but there may be very little cable-length between where the cable enters the light and where it connects to the PCB.

 

As FD has a replacement, he may be able to see inside the light (using a powerful torch) to identify what the internal wiring looks like

[Fred Duck]

Thanks, again. These are quite small light units so there isn't much space inside for wiring. As best as I can see, the two feed wires go straight into the back of the PCB with the length of wire from where it enters the plastic journal at the back of the unit to the PCB being 5mm at most. Is that sufficient to be able to strip the insulation and splice in the new unit's feed always assuming the existing wire didn't disappear into the bowels when I did it? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't and the only way of knowing is to break the existing unit up and see. There's no way back from doing that so, as I said above, large brave pill needed!!

 

FD

[rayc]

Fred Duck - 2022-03-30 7:45 PM

 

Thanks, again. These are quite small light units so there isn't much space inside for wiring. As best as I can see, the two feed wires go straight into the back of the PCB with the length of wire from where it enters the plastic journal at the back of the unit to the PCB being 5mm at most. Is that sufficient to be able to strip the insulation and splice in the new unit's feed always assuming the existing wire didn't disappear into the bowels when I did it? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't and the only way of knowing is to break the existing unit up and see. There's no way back from doing that so, as I said above, large brave pill needed!!

 

FD

 

Break it up so that the PCB is exposed. I suspect that it will then be possible to cut the board whilst retaining the connections and use them to solder new wires to. When you pull the lamp out tie some cord to the exposed wire and anchor it to something that would stop it going back into the hole.