Iain Strachan Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Hi all, well Tour Two got off to a great start, weather wise, but we are having a problem with the van! Cannot get any water into it. I have phoned Whale and they are dispatching some bits to us to fix hopefully. I wondered if any of you had any experience of Whale systems. Regards Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Choosing to build a motorhome with a fresh-water filling system of the type used widely on caravans has always struck me as a mite perverse. As far as I'm aware it's unique to UK-built motorhomes and, while I can appreciate the (potential) advantages such a system might have over a 'hole in the side-wall' arrangement, I've never been keen on its inherent complexity. Perhaps UK motorcaravan manufacturers who fit the Whale/Truma filling systems believe that UK motorhome buyers will be using Aquarolls and all that jazz and, for all I know, they may be right. But it's something that I wouldn't want in my motorhome, and many motorhome testers comment negatively on vehicles with this type of system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Our new van has this rather stupid system, not sure how I missed it in the purchase but I did. It does work OK but you have to make sure the van habitation electrics are on when filling direct from a tap or the valves do not open. The only good bit about it is if your tank goes empty and you have to top up from a container, rather than messing about with funnels or watering cans just stick the pump in the container and it will empty a ten ltr container very fast. I intend speaking to Autosleeper to see if it can be done away with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I agree. Most people I have spoken to who have it moan about it. Who wants to carry an Aqua Roll or keep moving the motorhome to a tap every time it needs filling up. We tend to stay only a few nights at any one location. We don't even bother to carry a filling hose any more. We simply pitch reasonably near a tap and use a MK1 (Red and at cost very near £1) watering can. Two cans per day seems to be sufficient and we can adjust the amount we put in to ensure we do not travel with too much water in then tank. Bailey show their lack of experience with Motorhomes by fitting this stupid system. I did try and explain it to a Bailey rep at a show but all he did was to defend the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 rupert123 - 2012-08-30 4:35 PM Our new van has this rather stupid system, not sure how I missed it in the purchase but I did. It does work OK but you have to make sure the van habitation electrics are on when filling direct from a tap or the valves do not open. The only good bit about it is if your tank goes empty and you have to top up from a container, rather than messing about with funnels or watering cans just stick the pump in the container and it will empty a ten ltr container very fast. I intend speaking to Autosleeper to see if it can be done away with. I can't remember the reason but I do seem to remember there is some technical reason to do with the pipe sizes/lay out that make it very difficult to take the Whale system out and go back to the conventional system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Sorry, I must have missed this, but how do these systems work then? Have they done away with the standard (40mm) filler pipe meaning that you can no longer top-up from jerrycans, hoses etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Colin Leake - 2012-08-30 5:07 PM I agree. Most people I have spoken to who have it moan about it. Who wants to carry an Aqua Roll or keep moving the motorhome to a tap every time it needs filling up. We tend to stay only a few nights at any one location. We don't even bother to carry a filling hose any more. We simply pitch reasonably near a tap and use a MK1 (Red and at cost very near £1) watering can. Two cans per day seems to be sufficient and we can adjust the amount we put in to ensure we do not travel with too much water in then tank. Bailey show their lack of experience with Motorhomes by fitting this stupid system. I did try and explain it to a Bailey rep at a show but all he did was to defend the system. Colin if you do this the Whale system is fact probably the best. It comes with a short hose and pump which you drop into a ten ltr container and it empties it at a speed you would not believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Steve928 - 2012-08-30 5:12 PM Sorry, I must have missed this, but how do these systems work then? Have they done away with the standard (40mm) filler pipe meaning that you can no longer top-up from jerrycans, hoses etc? The connection to the van rather than being a simple hole with a locking cap has a flap with an electical valve that opens when you connect the special hose. It also has, this is the only good bit, a short hose with a very powerfull pump that you can just drop into a container to top up tank when away from a tap supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Strachan Posted August 30, 2012 Author Share Posted August 30, 2012 Well not much in the way of help, one of the first things I will be doing when I get back is having the Whale system removed! I am well aware of the submersible pump supplied but it does not work if the solenoid is stuck shut, it just pumps hard but gets no water in. Whale are dispatching new parts but as they have no support outside UK I will have to fit myself. Cheers Iain P.S. The sun is still shining and the wine is still cheap, and 5p off a litre of Gazole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I believe there is the capability with both the Whale and Truma systems to fill the water tank from a tap, though I'm not sure if a specialized hose is required. It was probably me who suggested that converting a Whale/Truma system back to a 'hole-in-the-wall' filling arrangement might well prove impracticable. See http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=27474&posts=3 http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=27045&posts=16 I don't think there's any technical obstacle preventing doing it, just that the task may turn out to be more trouble than it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Whenever I have a motorhome in with this type of filler and I need to put water in the tank I just remove the access cap on the tank and put the (food grade) hose direct into the tank. I've yet to come across a motorhome with this type of filler point that doesn't have an accessible cap on the tank. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Derek Uzzell - 2012-08-30 6:50 PM I believe there is the capability with both the Whale and Truma systems to fill the water tank from a tap, though I'm not sure if a specialized hose is required. . Yes their is Derek, I did in fact point this out on a previous post. You do need a special hose which is supplied with the system but it fills somewhat slower than a standard type filler system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 rupert123 - 2012-08-30 5:44 PM Colin Leake - 2012-08-30 5:07 PM I agree. Most people I have spoken to who have it moan about it. Who wants to carry an Aqua Roll or keep moving the motorhome to a tap every time it needs filling up. We tend to stay only a few nights at any one location. We don't even bother to carry a filling hose any more. We simply pitch reasonably near a tap and use a MK1 (Red and at cost very near £1) watering can. Two cans per day seems to be sufficient and we can adjust the amount we put in to ensure we do not travel with too much water in then tank. Bailey show their lack of experience with Motorhomes by fitting this stupid system. I did try and explain it to a Bailey rep at a show but all he did was to defend the system. Colin if you do this the Whale system is fact probably the best. It comes with a short hose and pump which you drop into a ten ltr container and it empties it at a speed you would not believe. The only practical container for this would be an Aqua Roll or a large container on a wheeled carrier. Who wants to carry that about in their motorhome? Then you've still got to fill it, lug it back to the motorhome, get the pump and hose out, connect them up pump the water then put them away again plus find a suitable place to stow the container. Sorry but I can't be arsed with all that my MK1 watering can is much simpler and so far 100% reliable and for the record no funnel is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 rupert123 - 2012-08-30 9:49 PM Derek Uzzell - 2012-08-30 6:50 PM I believe there is the capability with both the Whale and Truma systems to fill the water tank from a tap, though I'm not sure if a specialized hose is required. . Yes their is Derek, I did in fact point this out on a previous post. You do need a special hose which is supplied with the system but it fills somewhat slower than a standard type filler system. Ah yes, I missed your earlier advice - sorry about that. For the record, the special hose for the Whale Aquasource system is advertised here http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/230837087018?var=lv It's neither cheap nor very long, but there should be no need to pay the asking-price for a 'genuine' Whale extension hose. Truma markets a 15m connection hose for their "Ultraflow" system. http://www.caravanstuff4u.co.uk/product1436.html The asking price is unpleasant but, if a hose is only required to fill a motorhome's on-board water tank, it may be practicable just to obtain the special Truma 'pistol grip' connector and add your own hose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly58 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Dave Newell - 2012-08-30 7:09 PMWhenever I have a motorhome in with this type of filler and I need to put water in the tank I just remove the access cap on the tank and put the (food grade) hose direct into the tank. I've yet to come across a motorhome with this type of filler point that doesn't have an accessible cap on the tank.D.On my Autosleeper NuevoII EK there is no way you could fill the tank other than with the Whale System as you cannot access the top of the tank without dropping it there is no hatch in the floor. The Whale Systen is a pain in the butt and grossly impractible in a motorhome mostly I carry water to the motorhome in a bucket and fill with the submersible pump usually 1.30mins for 10 ltrs as its not always possible to get near a tap or fit the hose to a tap on an Aires and if you do manage to get a tap connection its painfully slow , because of the small inlet . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Colin Leake - 2012-08-30 10:44 PM rupert123 - 2012-08-30 5:44 PM Colin Leake - 2012-08-30 5:07 PM I agree. Most people I have spoken to who have it moan about it. Who wants to carry an Aqua Roll or keep moving the motorhome to a tap every time it needs filling up. We tend to stay only a few nights at any one location. We don't even bother to carry a filling hose any more. We simply pitch reasonably near a tap and use a MK1 (Red and at cost very near £1) watering can. Two cans per day seems to be sufficient and we can adjust the amount we put in to ensure we do not travel with too much water in then tank. Bailey show their lack of experience with Motorhomes by fitting this stupid system. I did try and explain it to a Bailey rep at a show but all he did was to defend the system. Colin if you do this the Whale system is fact probably the best. It comes with a short hose and pump which you drop into a ten ltr container and it empties it at a speed you would not believe. The only practical container for this would be an Aqua Roll or a large container on a wheeled carrier. Who wants to carry that about in their motorhome? Then you've still got to fill it, lug it back to the motorhome, get the pump and hose out, connect them up pump the water then put them away again plus find a suitable place to stow the container. Sorry but I can't be arsed with all that my MK1 watering can is much simpler and so far 100% reliable and for the record no funnel is needed. Not at all Colin. We do not drink water direct from our fresh water tank so have a ten ltr container for drinking water. I use this for topping up our tank on site if top up is required, always have before we had the Whale system, so no extra container is required. Do not get me wrong here I would still rather not have the Whale system but it s good for just top ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Dave Newell - 2012-08-30 7:09 PM Whenever I have a motorhome in with this type of filler and I need to put water in the tank I just remove the access cap on the tank and put the (food grade) hose direct into the tank. I've yet to come across a motorhome with this type of filler point that doesn't have an accessible cap on the tank. D. Auto-Sleepers have used this type of water-filling system on some of their panel-van models that have underslung fresh-water tanks. Bit doubtful that they would have access-caps that would allow your work-around technique to be employed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Derek Uzzell - 2012-08-31 8:56 AM rupert123 - 2012-08-30 9:49 PM Derek Uzzell - 2012-08-30 6:50 PM I believe there is the capability with both the Whale and Truma systems to fill the water tank from a tap, though I'm not sure if a specialized hose is required. . Yes their is Derek, I did in fact point this out on a previous post. You do need a special hose which is supplied with the system but it fills somewhat slower than a standard type filler system. Ah yes, I missed your earlier advice - sorry about that. For the record, the special hose for the Whale Aquasource system is advertised here http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/230837087018?var=lv It's neither cheap nor very long, but there should be no need to pay the asking-price for a 'genuine' Whale extension hose. Truma markets a 15m connection hose for their "Ultraflow" system. http://www.caravanstuff4u.co.uk/product1436.html The asking price is unpleasant but, if a hose is only required to fill a motorhome's on-board water tank, it may be practicable just to obtain the special Truma 'pistol grip' connector and add your own hose. Wow, those are expensive. I agree the hose is a little short so i have just bought a couple of connectors from B&Q and snap my old water hose onto the Whale one, this will also get me around the problem of coming across a water supply that does not have a screw connector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 rupert123 - 2012-08-31 9:08 AM Colin Leake - 2012-08-30 10:44 PM rupert123 - 2012-08-30 5:44 PM Colin Leake - 2012-08-30 5:07 PM I agree. Most people I have spoken to who have it moan about it. Who wants to carry an Aqua Roll or keep moving the motorhome to a tap every time it needs filling up. We tend to stay only a few nights at any one location. We don't even bother to carry a filling hose any more. We simply pitch reasonably near a tap and use a MK1 (Red and at cost very near £1) watering can. Two cans per day seems to be sufficient and we can adjust the amount we put in to ensure we do not travel with too much water in then tank. Bailey show their lack of experience with Motorhomes by fitting this stupid system. I did try and explain it to a Bailey rep at a show but all he did was to defend the system. Colin if you do this the Whale system is fact probably the best. It comes with a short hose and pump which you drop into a ten ltr container and it empties it at a speed you would not believe. The only practical container for this would be an Aqua Roll or a large container on a wheeled carrier. Who wants to carry that about in their motorhome? Then you've still got to fill it, lug it back to the motorhome, get the pump and hose out, connect them up pump the water then put them away again plus find a suitable place to stow the container. Sorry but I can't be arsed with all that my MK1 watering can is much simpler and so far 100% reliable and for the record no funnel is needed. Not at all Colin. We do not drink water direct from our fresh water tank so have a ten ltr container for drinking water. I use this for topping up our tank on site if top up is required, always have before we had the Whale system, so no extra container is required. Do not get me wrong here I would still rather not have the Whale system but it s good for just top ups. You drink water! I don't trust it I'll stick to wine and beer. Much safer me thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Colin Leake - 2012-08-30 10:44 PM..................We don't even bother to carry a filling hose any more. We simply pitch reasonably near a tap and use a MK1 (Red and at cost very near £1) watering can. Two cans per day seems to be sufficient and we can adjust the amount we put in to ensure we do not travel with too much water in then tank. .....................................The only practical container for this would be an Aqua Roll or a large container on a wheeled carrier. Who wants to carry that about in their motorhome? Then you've still got to fill it, lug it back to the motorhome, get the pump and hose out, connect them up pump the water then put them away again plus find a suitable place to stow the container. Sorry but I can't be arsed with all that my MK1 watering can is much simpler and so far 100% reliable and for the record no funnel is needed. I'm bemused Colin. :-) On the same basis that a watering can is more compact than an Aquaroll, a hose is a lot more compact than a watering can. Sooooooooooooooo? Why not fill the bleedin' tank with the hose, which is its design purpose, and use water until its gone, and repeat, ad infinitum. You surely arent so tight for payload a tank full of water takes you over the top? Haven't been sound-proofing the van with army surplus depleted uranium, have you? :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Steve928 - 2012-08-30 5:12 PM Sorry, I must have missed this, but how do these systems work then? Have they done away with the standard (40mm) filler pipe meaning that you can no longer top-up from jerrycans, hoses etc? Hi; I'm also a bit puzzled; is this basically the system used on caravans? If it is thanks for the opinions. I've been thinking of changing our 80-90 litre tank for something smaller, maybe supplementing with an external tank and submersible pump; but think I'll leave well alone. It's not broke ssssooooooooooo! cheers alan b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 snowie - 2012-09-01 12:13 AM Hi; I'm also a bit puzzled; is this basically the system used on caravans?... In a word - Yes The pictograms Truma use in their Ultraflow system adverts http://www.truma.com/uk/en/water-comfort/overview-ultraflow-range.php suggest that Ultraflow is appropriate to motorhomes as well as caravans. However, the Ultraflow downloadable documents refer only to "caravans" and the system diagrams all show external water reservoirs (eg Aquarolls) with no reference to leisure vehicles with on-board water tanks. I'm not aware of any Continental-built motorhome with this type of water-filling system. I'm pretty sure that, if a Continental motorhome manufacturer chose to employ Truma's Ultraflow or Whale's Aquasource it would turn out to be a UNSP (Unique Non-Selling Point). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Derek Uzzell - 2012-09-01 9:51 AM snowie - 2012-09-01 12:13 AM Hi; I'm also a bit puzzled; is this basically the system used on caravans?... In a word - Yes http://www.truma.com/uk/en/water-comfort/overview-ultraflow-range.php suggest that Ultraflow is appropriate to motorhomes as well as caravans. However, the Ultraflow downloadable documents refer only to "caravans" and the system diagrams all show external water reservoirs (eg Aquarolls) with no reference to leisure vehicles with on-board water tanks. I'm pretty sure that, if a Continental motorhome manufacturer chose to employ Truma's Ultraflow or Whale's Aquasource it would turn out to be a UNSP (Unique Non-Selling Point). Thanks Derek, We've had our "bespoke" PVC for a couple of years now, and I based some aspects of capacity and configuration on La Stradas, and after two years we find that our freshwater use is quite low, as we use sites and their shower facilities ( we have a shower in the van but it's only beeen used a couple of times). We also use a couple of 5 Litre bottled water bottles, filling them from the tap on site. We also use a watering can to top up for flushing and sink use. I hasten to add; this suits our way of using OUR van. So, I have a large space taken up with a water tank, as it's inside the van not underneath it. Looking at storage in a lot of PVCs, I'd have thought that someone would have taken a radical look at a water system that was more space effective. We have plenty of storage space, but I hate to waste space just because that's how things are generally done. A practical collapsible say 30-40 litre tank might be very useable for my situation, but haven't seen one anywhere. regards alan b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retread24800 Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Sorry but I'm on my second glass of rouge ATM and thought that it must be the fifth :-) Do people seriously carry a water container to fill up the water tank? and a pump? Why not short circuit the problem and do away with the tank? Carry en route water in the water carrier or easier still buy a caravan :D :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 Brian Kirby - 2012-08-31 10:56 PM Colin Leake - 2012-08-30 10:44 PM..................We don't even bother to carry a filling hose any more. We simply pitch reasonably near a tap and use a MK1 (Red and at cost very near £1) watering can. Two cans per day seems to be sufficient and we can adjust the amount we put in to ensure we do not travel with too much water in then tank. .....................................The only practical container for this would be an Aqua Roll or a large container on a wheeled carrier. Who wants to carry that about in their motorhome? Then you've still got to fill it, lug it back to the motorhome, get the pump and hose out, connect them up pump the water then put them away again plus find a suitable place to stow the container. Sorry but I can't be arsed with all that my MK1 watering can is much simpler and so far 100% reliable and for the record no funnel is needed. I'm bemused Colin. :-) On the same basis that a watering can is more compact than an Aquaroll, a hose is a lot more compact than a watering can. Sooooooooooooooo? Why not fill the bleedin' tank with the hose, which is its design purpose, and use water until its gone, and repeat, ad infinitum. You surely arent so tight for payload a tank full of water takes you over the top? Haven't been sound-proofing the van with army surplus depleted uranium, have you? :-) A hose is only more compact if you use one of those roll flat things. By the time you've moved near a tap, unrolled the hose, filled up and then rolled up the hose and stowed it away it's not worth the effort. For the record when we first started with motorhomes we used to do just that but soon converted to the MK1 watering can. As it happens we are a little tight for weight. We have an AutoTrail Apachie that is necessarily in my case below the 3500 limit. They tend to build em a bit heavy so the payload is limited more especially so as living in Kent we pop over the water to buy our wine etc and as a result often set off on a five week tour with a surprising amount of weight on board. In any case I don't want to be lugging a nearly full tank of water around most of the time. The only time we do carry a full tank and a full waste tank is if very high winds are forecast when we find the extra weight helps improve stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.