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This Juddergate thing


gocro

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Whilst this isn't a hot topic now,the whole bussiness passed by me as I have always had older vans.

I'm in the market now for an 07/08 vehicle.It is almost unavoidable that I will be getting a Peugeot 2.2

or Fiat 2.3. My question is, was there ever a recall?I can't find evidence of a recall, for the juddering reverse fault.Did individuals have to sort issues out with dealers/ garages?

 

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No there was never a recall as not all vehicles where affected and it has never been a safety issue.

you could check to see if the van has been modded, try a test drive, although you might find it difficult to replicate the somestimes extreme conditions needed to judder, or just buy a van of a different age.

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Guest Peter James

I have the Citroen Relay X2/50 Maxi Van from new, manufactured 2008, registered 2009, and am delighted with it.

The only recall has been for the spare wheel carrier.

I haven't done anything about the 'juddergate'

Reverse gear is higher than would be ideal, but acceptable at my weight - below 3.5 tonnes.

 

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Guest JudgeMental
Get the VIN, contact a dealer and see if it has had "the" fixes....no fixes walk away. Had fixes then test drive VERY carefully looking everywhere for oil leaks... Personally I would not touch one before late 2009/2010 and if you buy LHD you could probably afford one....Get a good one and its a lovely drive
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gocro - 2013-02-20 6:10 PM

 

Whilst this isn't a hot topic now,the whole bussiness passed by me as I have always had older vans.

I'm in the market now for an 07/08 vehicle.It is almost unavoidable that I will be getting a Peugeot 2.2

or Fiat 2.3. My question is, was there ever a recall?I can't find evidence of a recall, for the juddering reverse fault.Did individuals have to sort issues out with dealers/ garages?

 

If you are the slightest bit concerned, either don't buy a Fiat; or buy one that's been fixed.

Mine started life as a panelvan, I had it converted,changed the reg document, the problem arose, and a Fiat Pro/commercial garage fixed it. It's now on the Fiat database as "fixed" and I'm happy.

It's a 6-speed 2.3, and I'm glad I bought it. A 2.2 might not have been as enjoyable.

We plan to keep it as long as we enjoy it and can make full use of it.

 

Regards

alan b

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From what I read regarding the problem it was in the main due to too high a reverse gear coupled to big heavy bodies. Panel vans seem to not have the problem and for some curious reasons no problems seem to occur with the automatic, yet is the same gearbox. I am not sure what 'fixes' were done, the best option was to get the gearbox changed to a better ratio in reverse, but Fiat seems to try and avoid that one. I think that Peugeot were more accommodating.

 

The easy answer is to test drive any one you are interested in backwards up a slope and see what happens. A smelling or burning clutch, and walk away.

 

The earlier models also suffered from water ingress to the engine compartment and a splash plate was fixed to divert this.

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Dave225 - 2013-02-20 9:26 PM

 

From what I read regarding the problem it was in the main due to too high a reverse gear coupled to big heavy bodies. Panel vans seem to not have the problem and for some curious reasons no problems seem to occur with the automatic, yet is the same gearbox. I am not sure what 'fixes' were done, the best option was to get the gearbox changed to a better ratio in reverse, but Fiat seems to try and avoid that one. I think that Peugeot were more accommodating.

 

The easy answer is to test drive any one you are interested in backwards up a slope and see what happens. A smelling or burning clutch, and walk away.

 

The earlier models also suffered from water ingress to the engine compartment and a splash plate was fixed to divert this.

 

Dave, Andy Stothert might disagree with you, about panel vans not being affected.

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The probem with the juddergate issue, is that there was no LOGIC to which TYPE of vans were going to be affected. Some coachbuilts, large and small, and panel vans were affected, it was pot luck if it affected a particular vehicle or not. Andy Stothert had major issues with his bespoke PVC and it wasn't a massive monster either.

 

You really do need to check the details of any vehicle you seriously consider buying to see if it has had the problem in the past and been fixed, whether it has a problem and hasn't been fixed, or, hopefully, that it doesn't have a problem at all. Only a good test drive will tell you what it is ultimately like. Don't take a dealer's word for it, insist on a good long drive and do a bit of reversing uphill!

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Guest Peter James
Mel B - 2013-02-20 10:32 PM

, it was pot luck if it affected a particular vehicle ....

 

..... or a particular driver ;-)

 

I spoke to about 12 whitevanmen. Not one had even heard of the judder, or reverse gear problem.

Not One.

They all thought the X2/50 was the dogs b*llocks because its great to drive (lol)

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Out of the hundreds of thousands produced only a small quantity suffered with the problem as Mel says no rime or reason depends on the loading on the chassis. Hymer's do not appear to suffer, although we did did not have any problems (2.3, 2008) the reverse was was very high so I contacted Fiat and told then it juddered (it didn't) and got the gearbox modded without any problems.
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I took the VIN No. to a Peugeot car dealer at first he said I should go to a commercial dealer but tried the VIN in the database. It came up with two recalls having been done neither to gearbox or clutch.

This prompted my question, perhaps work may have been done but,but not recorded as it wasn't a recall ,just an adjustment.

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lennyhb - 2013-02-21 9:08 AM

 

The 1st one was a change of engine mounts and a minor software update that didn't do much, 2nd was new reverse gear & shaft, new clutch & damper.

 

I found out the hardway not all clutches were replaced or with the uprated item. I had all the mod carried out in early 2009 @2700 miles. Unfortunately last year @ 9500 miles, the clutch failed, we had it changed at the Fiat dealers £950, it was then we found out not all clutches were changed. On the plus side to date I have not heard of problems with the later uprated clutches.

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Juddergate will be around for some years to come, it has had many mentions on here and numerous solutions suggested such as engine software being remapped, new clutches and slave cylinders, engine mountings and the gearbox being stripped down to have the reverse gear replaced. Obviously some major work has had to be done to put it right, thats if the main agent dealers agree to carry the work out.

Quite often when the dealer is approached the all to familiar saying is, "IT'S ACCEPTABLE". It might be to them but then again they don't have to drive them. To me it's a get out excuse to get away with it. Our motorhomes cost a fearfull amount of money and are our pride and joy. I personally would not touch a sevel built X250 chassis with the 2.2, 2.3 engine and 6 speed gearbox from late 56 to early 10 reg. Anyone considering doing so has a lot of weighing up to do and first you need to ask yourself if you want piece of mind because the last thing you want to do is buy trouble. If you decide to risk it then before you sign any purchase order get the registeration and chassis number and take it to a main dealer to find out if any modifications has been carried out, if any has then you need to do a thorough test drive and also find a hill and reverse a short way up it. If it judders take it back park it up and walk away. If you can afford to buy a later model it will be fitted with the latest trouble free gearbox. Other than that consider a Merc or Renault, some Transits are known to have issues as well. The 3 ltr X250 is trouble free because it is a totally different gearbox.

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Guest JudgeMental
gocro - 2013-02-21 9:06 AM

 

I took the VIN No. to a Peugeot car dealer at first he said I should go to a commercial dealer but tried the VIN in the database. It came up with two recalls having been done neither to gearbox or clutch.

This prompted my question, perhaps work may have been done but,but not recorded as it wasn't a recall ,just an adjustment.

 

Oh please..wishful thinking or what.....read the last two posts from Roland and Melvin. IF the fixes have been done they WILL be recorded in vans history *-)

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From memory it was not a recall item but work carried out at the request of the owner.

 

Some Fiat garages (as mine) carried out the modification without a query.

Some Fiat dealers, you had to get the dealer to drive in reverse up a mountain with smoke from the clutch before any action would be taken.

 

I had paper work from the Fiat garage saying what they did, I dare say any owner would be willing to pass that on as part of the service history.

 

How the work was recorded, I don't know, maybe a repair under warranty, so would not show on the Fiat system ?

 

Rgds

 

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As I recall many dealers did the work but Fiat would not make it official as they never accepted there was a fault.

 

In which case unless a previous owner managed to get anything on paper from the dealer to confirm or unless he made notes in the handbook of what was done - if the dealer even told him - there may be no way of knowing.

 

I seem to recall that Peugeot dealers as ever may have been generally more helpful than Fiat?

 

My own 2.3 6 speed 130 van is 59 reg so probably made in early 09 and it is fine and it has been really tested over some 4000 miles to date.

 

Whether that is because it was born fine or was made fine I have no idea as there is nothing on the Fiat records for it?

 

Caveat emptor - buyer beware - maybe don't discount a van unless you have driven and reversed it uphill first, although I would still be inclined to avoid 07 and 08 vans!

 

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This has been discussed many times and it is nice to see many have changed their minds about the x250 which remains the best van base I have ever driven. Much has been written about the 'judder' but I personally doubt that the great majority ever gave their owners problems so have never had the 'fix' and if they have gone this long will not need it anyway. Their are two other x250 based m/h in the village where i live, one a 2007 one a 2008, both are 2.3 and neither owner was aware of any problem until i mentioned it and neither have bothered with any 'fix'. As others have said drive the thing and see for yourself, reverse it up a steep slope, see how you get on. I would point out the 2.2 five speed never had any problems, i had one of these on a 3500kg base van and it was fine, in fact not much differance between this and the 2.3 in pulling power and the six speed box is completely unnecessary anyway.
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