FRANKP60 Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Hi could anyone answer this for me. Recently while parked for two weeks with no electric i drained the vehicle battery.But before i realized it was the vehicle battery and not the leisure battery,I had recharged the leisure battery. Had to call RAC to get van started ,now someone has told me that if I had had a pair of jump leads I could have removed leisure battery and used it with the jump leads to start van.Is this correct,or would it cause damage. PS Hope this makes sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ChrisB Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Makes sense - but not adviseable? Many battery experts on the forum but I don't believe that leisure batteries are built to deliver the high currents needed to start a motor - particularly a large diesel. I was in the same position, but fortunately my on-board leasure battery charger also trickle charges the vehicle battery so was able to start after connecting the mains for a few hours. If yours does not have this facility then an alternative might be to connect the leisure and the vehicle batteries using one of the many "car to car" chargeing leads you can buy. This is the sort of thing - rplace lighter plugs with clips: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Ideas-Lighter-Socket-Starter/dp/B004O3TLPO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1348830124&sr=8-3 I don't think connecting them with jump leads would be adviseable even to deliver charge before attempting to start - but as I said an expert will come along shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Yes it makes sense and it works perfectly well. I have not had to do it for years but I still carry a set of good quality jump leads just in case as they can also be used to jump start from another vehicle (or help someone else) of course in which case it pays to keep the 'donor' vehicle engine running whilst connected! That said, leisure batteries are heavy and often difficult to access! Power packs, plug in devices and other gadgets more often than not don't have enough oomph to turn over a motorhome diesel engine so save your money and stick to good quality jump leads. PS - I'm not an expert - just a good diy bodger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooie Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 If the vehicle battery is going flat after just 2 weeks then there is something sadly wrong. I`d have thought it was fairly simple. Either there is quite a hefty drain on it or it`s knackered I`ve just replaced mine with a Exide Premium with 4 year warranty for just under £88. I`m sure my thoughts will be shot to pieces by someone. Regards. Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooie Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Damn and Blast, i`ve just found the same one on Ebay £2 cheaper !!!!!!! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ea1000-017TE-Exide-Car-Battery-premium-/271059340688?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D2365925887015513294%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D271059340688%26#ht_500wt_1203 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Wooie - 2012-09-28 3:05 PM If the vehicle battery is going flat after just 2 weeks then there is something sadly wrong. I`d have thought it was fairly simple. Either there is quite a hefty drain on it or it`s knackered I`ve just replaced mine with a Exide Premium with 4 year warranty for just under £88. I`m sure my thoughts will be shot to pieces by someone. Regards. Graham. Not your thoughts Graham - just the bloomin great link! It is a fact that modern vehicles do drain batteries and whilst two weeks is a bit severe it is not necessarily the fault of the battery? Best get it checked out by a reliable auto electrician before lashing out on a new one as the new one might go equally flat in the same period? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooie Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I`m not really sure what happened, it just grew and grew !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Wooie - 2012-09-28 4:45 PM I`m not really sure what happened, it just grew and grew !!!!! Said the art mistress to the gardener! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 As an aside to this, be very careful if you are asked to jump start another vehicle with yours ... it can turn out to be very, very expensive! Our next door neighbour's car battery went flat and as she was on her way to church at the time I took her, the following day she called the RAC out to sort it and hubby went to see if all was okay (her battery was duff) and got chatting to the chap. Hubby asked whether he could have given a jump start from our car but hadn't been sure if he was wise to do so - the RAC chap said he wouldn't do it if it was his car ... and he knows what he's doing! Apparently they often get called out to those who have attempted to give a jump start and in the process have fried the ECU on their own car ... very costly!!! 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 FRANKP60 - 2012-09-28 11:53 AM Hi could anyone answer this for me. Recently while parked for two weeks with no electric i drained the vehicle battery.But before i realized it was the vehicle battery and not the leisure battery,I had recharged the leisure battery. Had to call RAC to get van started ,now someone has told me that if I had had a pair of jump leads I could have removed leisure battery and used it with the jump leads to start van.Is this correct,or would it cause damage. PS Hope this makes sense... It depends on the leisure-battery. Certain types of battery (gel and AGM) fitted to motorhomes for powering the 'domestic' services can provide a motor-starting or deep-discharge capability. Many conventional wet-acid batteries sold nowadays for 'leisure' purposes also have starting/leisure dual functionality. It's also come to light that some batteries advertised purely for 'leisure' use are essentially re-badged starter batteries. Any of the foregoing batteries should be OK for starting a motorhome's engine in an emergency. However, if a leisure-battery has been specifically designed only for deep-discharge, damage to the battery could occur if it's used to start the vehicle. If you don't know which type of leisure-battery you have, or whether or not it has dual functionality, it would be wisest not to attempt to start a vehicle with it. Of course, if there's a real emergency (like you are about to be engulfed by a forest fire), you'll have to try it and hope for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan3956 Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 I have Bentley MotorHome which is fitted with a sealed Leisure battery. The control panel inside the vehicle can be programmed to start the vehicle engine via the leisure battery. So it would appear yes it doesnt advise to do it all the time just in an emergency. I have actually started a 2.5 diesel by using jump leads on a 12volt 12 amp hour motorcyle battery with the engine reving at 4000revs the 40 amp alternator gave me enough power to start the diesel with the motorcycle battery attached, I was stuck in a field with all the batteries flat on the MH. the battery on the bike had no ill affects and lasted 8 years it was after all a Honda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 30, 2012 Share Posted September 30, 2012 spartan3956 - 2012-09-30 6:43 PM I have Bentley MotorHome which is fitted with a sealed Leisure battery. The control panel inside the vehicle can be programmed to start the vehicle engine via the leisure battery... I hesitate to ask this, but are you 100% certain that's so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan3956 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Derek Bentley use an EOS control panel made by EMP of Totton Southampton, they also supplied Auto cruise vehicles with control panels. This unit has the features of charging the leisure battery once full it will divert charge to the vehicle battery. self setting fuses solar Ready will regulate a solar panel up to 100watts. current charging reading. A management button which will inform you of the hours available for a given power drain. Water levels fresh and waste reverse polarity warning shuts down water pump when tank at minimum and of course the emergency start procedure as soon as the engine starts it reverts back to normal. quite a clever piece of kit. I have the hand book in front of me. http://www.nrgmp.com/products/details/energy-management-system# The web page doesnt state the emergency start procedure but i am sure they would confirm it Does! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 If a leisure battery is to start an engine it would need some very substantial cables both directly from it to earth and directly from it to either the vehicle engine battery or direct to the starter motor because without very high current carrying capacity cables it ain't gonna happen! Failing this all it can do is shed some of it's charge into the engine battery on the hope that it will eventually be enough to start the engine and even then I suspect that the leisure battery would need a charging input of it's own sufficient to create enough voltage difference between the two to have any real effect. I don't know the details of the Bentley system but even Bentley cannot defy the laws of physics - and if he can he is in the wrong business as there is a fortune to be made from perpetual motion and similar effects!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 spartan3956 - 2012-10-01 4:58 PM Derek Bentley use an EOS control panel made by EMP of Totton Southampton, they also supplied Auto cruise vehicles with control panels.... Before asking the question, I had quickly looked at the EMP website and at the section of the Bentley website that refers to the EOS system. http://www.bentleymotorhomes.co.uk/eos-the-energy-optimisation-system.html It's common enough for a motorhome control-panel to allow either the vehicle's starter-battery or leisure-battery to provide 12V power for the 'habitation' services. It's also common for a control-panel to allow the motorhome's on-board battery-charger to charge either the starter-battery or the leisure-battery, or to automatically divert charge to the starter-battery once the charge-state of the leisure-battery has reached a certain level. But I've never come across a control-panel that would allow a leisure-battery to be used for engine-starting INSTEAD of the starter-battery and - for exactly the reasons Tracker mentions - I was (and remain) very wary that such a capability would be offered. For a control-panel to be able to safely convert a leisure-battery's normal role into that of a starter-battery would require the leisure-battery to have (as Tracker emphasises) cabling between itself and the vehicle's starting circuitry of the same heavy gauge as found on the starter-battery. There would also need to be a socking great relay somewhere in the mix to handle the role-swapping. I suspect the EOS emergency starting procedure you mention is in a different ball-game to the jump-lead ploy FRANKP60 originally asked about, but I'm happy to be convinced otherwise. Would you like to quote what it says in your handbook about this, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan3956 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Derek The control panel hand book Emergency start feature Quote Should the engine battery end up flat, EOS has a special feature . Menu is accessed by first pressing the central button under the display and holding it for about two seconds repeatedly press either of the arrow buttons under the display until "emergency start" appears.select yes The display will then show (display panel) emergency start WAIT You will be asked to wait a few minutes while the engine prepares for the engine start, this can be aborted at any time. The screen will then prompt you to start the engine when engine starts the system goes back to normal. General observations The wires from the Aux battery are heavier than normal but nowhere near the guage of starter motor wires. The well under th4 drivers seat has a lot of electronic`s fitted. It is doubtful the manufacturer will divulge its technology but it has something above the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan3956 Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 typing error should read You will be asked to wait a few minutes while the system prepares for the engine start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 "You will be asked to wait a few minutes while the system prepares for the engine start." This would imply to me they probably have fitted a voltage booster to charge the engine battery from the leisure batteries with a reasonably high current, takes a few minutes to get enough charge in and then lets you try and start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 spartan3956 Thanks for the feedback - I might ask EMP to clarify what's involved. It would appear that there must be some sort of checking function that operates during the "WAIT" period to establish whether or not the battery-power (presumably the starter-battery's power) can be considered adequate to attempt an engine-start. If that's so and the starter-battery has been flattened, it might be a very long "WAIT". While I can understand your enthusiasm for about cutting-edge motorhome technology, this sort of thing engenders a deep-seated horror in me. I favour simplicity and, for me, a motorhome with "a lot of electronics" under its driver's seat immediately makes me ask myself "If they go wrong, will anyone understand them and be able to fix them?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I share Derek's dislike of untried and unproven electronics as Murphy's Law will sooner or later apply and 'anything that can go wrong will go wrong'. My brother had one of these voltage booster thingies that was supposed to power up one battery from another via the cigarette lighter socket and all I can say is - don't rely on it if you need to be somewhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Strachan Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 So, has Frank P ever found out why his vehicle battery was flat in 2 weeks? Reading the Boxer hand book for my vehicle is a bit worrying suggest that if laying up for 2 weeks battery should be disconected! eems new vehicles have to be used which is a good excuse for getting away in the van at every possible time. Cheers Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FRANKP60 Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 Hi .Yes Frank p knows why the battery went flat ,it was because on a CL with no electric I put the switch down wrong way and drain the Engine battery ,even took the leisure battery up to farm to recharge ,it was after recharging and still having a problem another Motor homer on site had a look and told me what i had done .Just had three weeks in France no battery problems.I think i must put it down to idiot factor on my part .But thanks for all the advice guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan3956 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I have seen these so called Battery Buddies sold. They allow the vehicle battery to be drained so far then shut down leaving enough charge to start the engine, Could just be a life saver, I do know the Police used to have them fitted with all those lights flashing and radio equipement soon flattened the batteries. Know they use a system were the motor can be run unattended but if an attempt is made to move it well it stalls, stops the scally wags from pinching them. As for all those electronics under the seat, they are afterall the same as a control panel fitted under the sink which i never though very clever as on my last auto Trail Mohican, As a throw away society you just have to buy another unit. Nothing made by man or woman lasts forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Strachan Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Glad you know where you went wrong, its all a learning curve, or just a memory test. Glad you had a good trip to France with no worries. Cheers Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Hi Being able to start the engine via the "house" batteries is common in American R-V`s. All the one`s I have owned had/have this facility. It`s accessed via a Switch or Button on the dash usually, and brings in a Solenoid relay to couple up the batteries. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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