Insurance - requirement to have spare wheel

[Mel B]

This has been covered before, fut is just a reminder to anyone who has an insurance policy with Caravan Guard that you MUST have a usable spare wheel in the vehicle at all times - I assume this is because the policy includes UK recovery as standard:

 

See below - page 12, item 4:

 

http://www.caravanguard.co.uk/downloads/motorhome_insurance_policy.pdf

 

I don't know whether a can of the repair kit stuff supplied by the manufacturer would suffice - if that's all you've got you'd better ask Caravan Guard quick. :-S

[Petra]

When I read Caravan Guard insurance they stated you had to have a usable spare wheel but as ours does not come with one I contacted them to check. They confirmed that a wheel repair kit does count and I actually got them to put that in writing to us just to make sure there were no problems at a later date.

[Derek Uzzell]

Many breakdown-cover policies contain wording on the lines of the insured's vehicle needing to carry a serviceable spare-wheel unless that vehicle was never built to carry one.

 

Aviva's conditions are somewhat different. See para 6 of the following:

 

http://www.aviva.co.uk/breakdown-cover/policy-information.html

 

A major snag with 'fix & go' kits for heavy vehicles like motorcaravans is that, if a motorhome's tyre deflates while driving, there's a good chance the resultant damage to the tyre will render it unusable. Historically, you just fitted the spare-wheel and continued your journey until the opportunity arose to obtain a replacement tyre. This is not an option, of course, when there's no spare-wheel to fit.

 

There's an educational piece on:

 

http://www.aviva.com/investor-relations/news/7419/

[Mel B]

Some of the above reasons are why we bought a spare for our van, no way do I want to spend half a day trying to sort out a replacement tyre in the UK, or goodness knows how long if it happens abroad! 8-)

[rupert123]

We to have bought a spare but not fitted it yet. Personally cannot see it makes a huge differance though. If I got a puncture away in europe would still need to sort it out and spend the time doing so.

[Patricia]

I actually had a blow out on the M25 which completely destroyed the tyre ( new one - nails on the carriageway). The first question from the breakdown people was, "Do you have a spare tyre?". Answer was yes but they took a long time to find me despite given them the exact location - obviously didn't want to do the job! Missed the ferry of course but crossed anyway and phoned a garage in Boulogne the following morning. In the end needed 4 tyres (all were damaged) which they obtained the same afternoon. So don't worry about finding tyres in France - mine were Michelin though and at that time were cheaper there than in England.

[Guest peter]

Ours doesn't come with a spare, but I've bouht one and a 10 ton bottle jack to change it with. I'd sooner do that than ponce about with sticking goo in the tyre, that's only if it isn't destroyed by then.

[Derek Uzzell]

rupert123 - 2010-12-09 9:48 PM

 

We to have bought a spare but not fitted it yet. Personally cannot see it makes a huge differance though. If I got a puncture away in europe would still need to sort it out and spend the time doing so.

 

Depends on how you assess "huge difference".

 

Let's say you have a tyre-destroying puncture on a Saturday evening, well down in France, with a ferry-crossing on the Sunday and an important meeting early on Monday mornng. With no spare-wheel, you would be stuck in France until Monday, so you'd miss the ferry and the meeting. With a spare-wheel, you'd have a half-hour delay (I assume that would be sufficient for you to change the wheel) and you'd catch the ferry and be able to attend the meeting.

 

This is, of course, just a hypothetical example. But I find it difficult to imagine any scenario involving a vehicle immobilised by a badly damaged tyre where having a spare-wheel wouldn't be advantageous, or not having a spare-wheel wouldn't be disadvantageous.

[David B]

From Patricia's post it seems a breakdown service will come out to change a wheel following a puncture.

 

I have often wondered if the AA/RAC etc would change a wheel for you. I would find it difficult to do it myself. Just jacking up the motorhome with the supplied jack it is difficult to get sufficient clearance to get the wheel off. Accessing the heavy underslung spare would be a problem, risking your life crawling under the vehicle while jacked up - its difficult to get underneath when you have a puncture before using the jack.

 

Anyone else had any experience of breakdown service for punctures?

[Patricia]

At the time of the blow out the breakdown assistance was Europ Assistance but I think Saga have changed to another one now. I have been on their website but cannot find the name of the new company and I do not have my details to hand. However, they are still advertising that they will come out to puntures, flat tyres, running out of fuel etc. There is absolutely no way that I could cope with a puncture on my own. As it was I had to help the breakdown man!

[Brian Kirby]

How much trouble you experience following a flat will inevitably depend on what day of the week, and time of day, the event occurs, but will also depend on the circumstances causing the flat.  Patricia's was at one end of the scale: nails on a motorway.  Nasty enough and, with a sudden deflation, potentially dangerous depending on traffic density, speed, which lane you are in, and how difficult it is to maintain control onto the hard shoulder.

However, if you happen to be wandering the by-ways in a rural area, and in passing an oncoming truck on a bend, you stray off the tarmac on one of those roads where the verge is lower than the road surface, and the road surface ends in a ragged edge (there are lots of these all over Europe :-)), you stand a good chance of taking out the inside wall of the tyre, especially if it is wet.  So, you now have the joy of a flat on a narrow rural road, and needing to change a nearside wheel.  You are also now vulnerable to traffic approaching round the bend.  Deploy the triangle, of course, but still a "sticky" spot.  You can't use the goo, because the sidewall is damaged, so you'll phone the breakdown.  Ah, no signal!  Rural area.  Drive on rim?  Go for help?  Wait for next vehicle and cadge a lift to town? 

Or carry a spare.  What did the Boy Scouts say?  Be prepared!  Who says self-sufficiency is a bad idea?  :-)

[Robinhood]

David B - 2010-12-10 10:29 AM

 

I have often wondered if the AA/RAC etc would change a wheel for you. I would find it difficult to do it myself.

 

 

Both the AA and RAC will assist with a wheel change if it results from a "breakdown". (e.g. a puncture whilst travelling). (Indeed, I think they recommend seeking assistance on motorways and main roads).

 

I suspect other breakdown organisations are similar.

 

This is, of course, subject to you carrying a replacement wheel and tyre they can use. If you haven't got one, they may charge for sourcing a wheel/tyre to get you going - though at least the RAC says that if your vehicle was manufactured without one, then they will treat the case on its merits.

[Vernon B]

Derek Uzzell - 2010-12-09 6:39 PM

 

Many breakdown-cover policies contain wording on the lines of the insured's vehicle needing to carry a serviceable spare-wheel unless that vehicle was never built to carry one.

 

Aviva's conditions are somewhat different. See para 6 of the following:

 

http://www.aviva.co.uk/breakdown-cover/policy-information.html

 

A major snag with 'fix & go' kits for heavy vehicles like motorcaravans is that, if a motorhome's tyre deflates while driving, there's a good chance the resultant damage to the tyre will render it unusable. Historically, you just fitted the spare-wheel and continued your journey until the opportunity arose to obtain a replacement tyre. This is not an option, of course, when there's no spare-wheel to fit.

 

There's an educational piece on:

 

http://www.aviva.com/investor-relations/news/7419/

 

As I'm just in the process of switching to Comfort Insurance who use Aviva/RAC to provide breakdown cover I was interested in Derek's references. Disappointingly they show that once again very little is certain or straightforward with motorhome insurance. Let me explain:-

 

In the first reference concerning exclusions to the cover Aviva says:-

 

"We've told you everything that we include in our breakdown cover policy, but we want you to have the confidence to know that there's no “small print” and that you you've got the right breakdown cover package for your needs. We've summarised what's not included below, but please refer to the breakdown cover policy wording for full details."

 

And goes on to make things as clear as mud by saying:-

 

6. Any costs incurred as a result of you failing to carry a serviceable spare tyre and wheel appropriate to your vehicle, caravan or trailer.

Note: motorised vehicles that are manufactured without the provision of a spare wheel will be considered on their individual merits.

 

7. Assistance in changing a wheel is only covered within your breakdown entitlement if you are carrying a serviceable spare as specified above. "

 

Now what exactly have we got here M'Lord? Let's do a little unpicking:

 

In para 6 do the words "any cost incurred as a result of you failing to carry a serviceable spare tyre and wheel" mean they won't come out to you? Or does it mean that they'll come out but the policy does not include the cost of supplying a replacement tyre and/or wheel - which of course would be quite reasonable.

 

And what about the footnote? What oh what do the slippery words "will be considered on their individual merits" mean? Does this mean that they are prepared to "appove" certain vehicles for cover, as an earlier post suggests, or does it mean the merits of the case when it occurs?

 

As for para 7 this appears to be a statement of the bleeding obvious - if you ain't got a spare wheel they can't put it on. In the words of the great Richard Littlejohn "you couldn't make it up!".

 

I could of course endeavour to seek clarification on these ambiguities from someone within bowels of Aviva but experience tells me I have no chance. Comfort I'm sure will try and clarify matters but in the final event it will all depend upon the guy you get on the end of the phone when you've pulled over on the hard shoulder of a wet and wind swept auroroute at rush hour in some distant part of Europe.

 

But wait, Derek's second reference does provide some hope since here we have an account of what actually happens on the ground:

 

"Connolly [an RAC spokesman] said: “Having no spare wheel can turn a breakdown we can repair quickly at the roadside into a much longer resolution for the driver. Last year we attended more than 8,000 call-outs where there was no spare wheel. If the vehicle has to be towed to a tyre retailer or garage, it will generally take up to half a day to get the vehicle back on the road with a new tyre."

 

So in reality Aviva/RAC do replace tyres if your vehicle doesn't come with one - but just remember to quote the other 8,000 poor sods if you get a "jobs worth" on the end of that phone.

 

V

 

 

[rupert123]

Derek Uzzell - 2010-12-10 9:42 AM

 

rupert123 - 2010-12-09 9:48 PM

 

We to have bought a spare but not fitted it yet. Personally cannot see it makes a huge differance though. If I got a puncture away in europe would still need to sort it out and spend the time doing so.

 

Depends on how you assess "huge difference".

 

Let's say you have a tyre-destroying puncture on a Saturday evening, well down in France, with a ferry-crossing on the Sunday and an important meeting early on Monday mornng. With no spare-wheel, you would be stuck in France until Monday, so you'd miss the ferry and the meeting. With a spare-wheel, you'd have a half-hour delay (I assume that would be sufficient for you to change the wheel) and you'd catch the ferry and be able to attend the meeting.

 

This is, of course, just a hypothetical example. But I find it difficult to imagine any scenario involving a vehicle immobilised by a badly damaged tyre where having a spare-wheel wouldn't be advantageous, or not having a spare-wheel wouldn't be disadvantageous.

 

Why not say you were driving back and all four tyres blew at once, this is pure 'moonshine'. I was speaking from a personal point of view and have no meetings to attend, my ferry is a Seafrance carnet so what do I care if I miss a ferry, always another one. If I got a puncture it would almost certainly be a destroyed tyre, am I going to change the wheel myself, doubtfull, so call out anyway. Am I going to carry on my europeon tour without a spare after the puncture, no, unless I am used to being without the spare anyway, so I will waste just as much time finding another tyre. I never said being without the tyre is an advantage, that is why I now have one, but cannot see it is a huge differance, which is what I did say.

[Brian Kirby]

rupert123 - 2010-12-10 4:48 PM ............... If I got a puncture it would almost certainly be a destroyed tyre, am I going to change the wheel myself, doubtfull, so call out anyway. Am I going to carry on my europeon tour without a spare after the puncture, no, unless I am used to being without the spare anyway, so I will waste just as much time finding another tyre. I never said being without the tyre is an advantage, that is why I now have one, but cannot see it is a huge differance, which is what I did say.

Setting aside, for one minute, Derek's colourful scenario, you seem possibly to be missing one factor, Henry.  Having got the puncture and destroyed the tyre, and not having a spare, you would be stuck at the roadside until either a breakdown man came, went, and came back with a suitable wheel and tyre, managed to raise a mobile tyre fitter with a tyre he could fit to your rim at the roadside, or shovelled your van onto a breakdown truck to go to the nearest tyre fitter.  That suggests a fair amount of waiting around. 

On the other hand, if you have a spare, even if you don't change the wheel yourself and call the breakdown man, he'll be able to fix it as soon as he arrives and, if you decide to fix it yourself, all things being equal, even quicker.  True you now need to find a replacement tyre, but surely that need not take anything like as long as you would have had to hang around waiting for assistance without the spare, and you'd also be likely to get your own choice of tyre, rather than having to accept what turned up.  I think that is the potential advantage.  Punctures not being that common, it is admittedly only an advantage if it happens, but none the less.................

[Colin Leake]

I have seen the AA changing a wheel on a motorhome on site so presumably this is a service they offer. You should have heard what the AA man had to say about the standard location of spare wheels on Fiats as he was laying on his back in the mud trying to get it out. Thank heaven when our new Auto-Trail arrives it will have the spare in a neat easily accessible locker on the back. Why can't more manufacturers make sensible provision for the storage of a spare?

[Colin Leake]

Brian Kirby - 2010-12-10 5:14 PM

rupert123 - 2010-12-10 4:48 PM ............... If I got a puncture it would almost certainly be a destroyed tyre, am I going to change the wheel myself, doubtfull, so call out anyway. Am I going to carry on my europeon tour without a spare after the puncture, no, unless I am used to being without the spare anyway, so I will waste just as much time finding another tyre. I never said being without the tyre is an advantage, that is why I now have one, but cannot see it is a huge differance, which is what I did say.

Setting aside, for one minute, Derek's colourful scenario, you seem possibly to be missing one factor, Henry.  Having got the puncture and destroyed the tyre, and not having a spare, you would be stuck at the roadside until either a breakdown man came, went, and came back with a suitable wheel and tyre, managed to raise a mobile tyre fitter with a tyre he could fit to your rim at the roadside, or shovelled your van onto a breakdown truck to go to the nearest tyre fitter.  That suggests a fair amount of waiting around. 

On the other hand, if you have a spare, even if you don't change the wheel yourself and call the breakdown man, he'll be able to fix it as soon as he arrives and, if you decide to fix it yourself, all things being equal, even quicker.  True you now need to find a replacement tyre, but surely that need not take anything like as long as you would have had to hang around waiting for assistance without the spare, and you'd also be likely to get your own choice of tyre, rather than having to accept what turned up.  I think that is the potential advantage.  Punctures not being that common, it is admittedly only an advantage if it happens, but none the less.................

Speak for yourself we've just had two in the space of three weeks on our car. Nails from rubbish tip!

[Brian Kirby]

Colin Leake - 2010-12-10 5:19 PM Speak for yourself we've just had two in the space of three weeks on our car. Nails from rubbish tip!

Well, if you must get your nails from the rubbish tip, you'll have to be doubly careful where you leave them!  :-D

[Patricia]

I wish the earlier Auto-Trails were fitted on the back like yours will be. Mine is underneath, doubly difficult because I have a big bar at the back which used to have a bike rack on it. The call to the breakdown was in the late afternoon, about 50 miles from Dover, and I didn't manage to reach the port until after 11pm. The punture happened at speed in the middle lane with loads of lorries so I am very fortunate that I managed to hold the steering until I reached the hard shoulder. I then had to stay in the m/h as there was nowhere else to go (right alongside a very steep embankment) which was not a pleasant way to spend over two hours before he found me. The m/h shook like mad constantly as the lorries speeded past. Then I had to get out and risk my life to help him! Someone up there was taking care of me that day for sure!!

[rupert123]

Brian Kirby - 2010-12-10 5:14 PM

rupert123 - 2010-12-10 4:48 PM ............... If I got a puncture it would almost certainly be a destroyed tyre, am I going to change the wheel myself, doubtfull, so call out anyway. Am I going to carry on my europeon tour without a spare after the puncture, no, unless I am used to being without the spare anyway, so I will waste just as much time finding another tyre. I never said being without the tyre is an advantage, that is why I now have one, but cannot see it is a huge differance, which is what I did say.

Setting aside, for one minute, Derek's colourful scenario, you seem possibly to be missing one factor, Henry.  Having got the puncture and destroyed the tyre, and not having a spare, you would be stuck at the roadside until either a breakdown man came, went, and came back with a suitable wheel and tyre, managed to raise a mobile tyre fitter with a tyre he could fit to your rim at the roadside, or shovelled your van onto a breakdown truck to go to the nearest tyre fitter.  That suggests a fair amount of waiting around. 

On the other hand, if you have a spare, even if you don't change the wheel yourself and call the breakdown man, he'll be able to fix it as soon as he arrives and, if you decide to fix it yourself, all things being equal, even quicker.  True you now need to find a replacement tyre, but surely that need not take anything like as long as you would have had to hang around waiting for assistance without the spare, and you'd also be likely to get your own choice of tyre, rather than having to accept what turned up.  I think that is the potential advantage.  Punctures not being that common, it is admittedly only an advantage if it happens, but none the less.................

Brian not missing your point, in fact I agree with you but go back to what I said. 'I do not see any great advantage'. I do not, at least for me. I am on holiday so no rush and in the unlikely event I get a puncture then I can wait. I repeat, AGAIN, I would rather have a spare but do not see the lack of one as any big problem, have driven around the UK and europe now for close to four years without a spare. When I bought my current van, I should really say we but as my wife does not read or follow forums and cares less it is I. However to continue, the van did not have a spare, in fact both vans, decided on did not have one but this was then and remains a minor point. The choice at the time, 2008, most vans did not so unless you were prepared to severely limit your choice, which I am not, you go with it. I filled the tyres with puncture seal and got on with life. I did try to remember the last time I had a puncture and could not, so it is not an issue for me. I guess some worry more than others about every detail, weigh up every risk for days, me I would rather just go away and enjoy my self. If problems occur, which they do, then fine I will sort it out when they happen. I certainly cannot worry to much about the once in every twenty years I may get a puncture.

[mel wood]

rupert123 - 2010-12-09 9:48 PM

 

We to have bought a spare but not fitted it yet. Personally cannot see it makes a huge differance though. If I got a puncture away in europe would still need to sort it out and spend the time doing so.

 

Why would anybody buy any vehicle without a spare wheel and tyre?

[Mel B]

Everyone is able to judge for themselves whether they feel they should have a spare, and the risks associated with not having one, for their way of motorhome usage.

 

Rupert, I note that although you don't personally feel the need to carry a spare, or that it makes a huge difference, you have instead actually had puncture seal put in, which hopefully means that you have some protection from a minor puncture. It would be interesting to know if you didn't have this installed, would you then feel a spare wheel was more necessary? Also, if you did have a spare (as standard) would you still have had the puncture seal installed? Not being critical, just simply trying to get people's thoughts on the matter. :-D

 

So I suppose the alternatives are:

 

1) To rely only on the manufacture's 'gunk' kit for if/when you get a puncture.

 

2) Buy a spare (and have it in the van with you!), along with the 'gunk' kit.

 

3) Buy a spare and leave the 'gunk' kit at home.

 

4) Have puncture seal installed but don't have a spare.

 

5) Have puncture seal installed and a spare wheel too.

 

I assume if you have puncture seal installed the 'gunk' kit is surplus to requirements. :-S

[Mel B]

mel wood - 2010-12-11 2:31 PM

 

rupert123 - 2010-12-09 9:48 PM

 

We to have bought a spare but not fitted it yet. Personally cannot see it makes a huge differance though. If I got a puncture away in europe would still need to sort it out and spend the time doing so.

 

Why would anybody buy any vehicle without a spare wheel and tyre?

 

Because a spare wheel is something you can add once you've found the vehicle you want, if you restrict your choice to only those vehicles with a spare as standard you could really struggle to get what you want.

[Colin Leake]

Patricia - 2010-12-10 7:05 PM

 

I wish the earlier Auto-Trails were fitted on the back like yours will be. Mine is underneath, doubly difficult because I have a big bar at the back which used to have a bike rack on it. The call to the breakdown was in the late afternoon, about 50 miles from Dover, and I didn't manage to reach the port until after 11pm. The puncture happened at speed in the middle lane with loads of lorries so I am very fortunate that I managed to hold the steering until I reached the hard shoulder. I then had to stay in the m/h as there was nowhere else to go (right alongside a very steep embankment) which was not a pleasant way to spend over two hours before he found me. The m/h shook like mad constantly as the lorries speeded past. Then I had to get out and risk my life to help him! Someone up there was taking care of me that day for sure!!

 

We had safety bands fitted in the tyres on a caravan we had which suffered a blowout at speed. Sufficient to say they do just what it says on the can. Most impressive giving us total control and enabling me to drive to relative safety on the hard shoulder

[rupert123]

mel wood - 2010-12-11 2:31 PM

 

rupert123 - 2010-12-09 9:48 PM

 

We to have bought a spare but not fitted it yet. Personally cannot see it makes a huge differance though. If I got a puncture away in europe would still need to sort it out and spend the time doing so.

 

Why would anybody buy any vehicle without a spare wheel and tyre?

 

Mel has already answered this but as you obviously do not read posts properly will repeat myself. When I bought my last van new in 2008 very few vans, at this time, had a spare wheel. In some cases you could get one as an add on, sometimes not. Many on here have rushed out with the 'I would never buy one without thing'. This is fine but would restrict your choice badly and I was OK with it for the reasons given in my earlier post. It is a bit like the 'I would never buy Fiat crowd', well OK but once again your choice is cut by a very large percentage, to large to give you much choice at all in fact. It is a risk sure but to small to bother much with and when I get my van replated in the new year will fit the carrier and spare I now have. Mel I will still keep the tyres full of puncture seal when I get around to fitting the carrier and spare, which are sitting in my garage.