Phill Fougere Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Hi Folks, I have a 2008 registered FIAT X2-50 camper van,(Dethleffs Globebus I3), with about 22,000 miles on the clock. The handbrake lever travel to effectively engage the hand brake is excessive. How and where do I make an adjustment to reduce the handbrake lever travel? Your advice is always appreciated. Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 There are 2 adjustment points on the linkage under the van (see pics attached). A twiddle of the nut in diagram 2 (with the little spanner next to it) so the handbrake is engaged inbetween about the 5th and 6th click should be about right. Always a good idea to jack up the rear wheels to check they are spinning reasonably freely. That will job done I think :-) But if that is not giving enough tension to make the handbrake effective you need to look at the adjustment in the third diagram. .As you can see, the leverage is increased by pulling the rod that goes along the length of the van sideways, as well as forwards. This increase in leverage is necessary to provide the high tension in the cables which is necessary for the handbrake to be effective. There is a lot more on this in the workshop manual, involving removing the rear wheels, and poking a screwdriver through the inspection hole, to tighten and slacken off the adjustment again to check that the automatic adjusters are working within the specified tolerance. But that should not be necessary as yours sounds like the normal stretching of the cable, that is easily corrected through normal adjustment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill Fougere Posted November 15, 2011 Author Share Posted November 15, 2011 Thank you Peter :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Hello, I would just like to add that while you are underneath the vehicle it would be worth checking that the pivot arm is moving freely and lubricate it. They have a tendancy to seize if not regularly greased. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill Fougere Posted November 15, 2011 Author Share Posted November 15, 2011 Thank you Nick, will do. Phill :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 You're Welcome. Thanks Nick - I should have added lubricate the pivot arm. Thats something I would do myself, but forget to tell others to do. I should also have added that when the cable in between the handbrake lever and the pivot arm starts to stretch, it will be necessary to take up the slack at the adjustment point 1a. Otherwise if you are only taking up the slack at the nut in the second diagram, you could reach the stage where the cable was adjusted so tight the brakes were binding, but there is still lots of handbrake lever travel, because you have to pull the lever so far before it begins to move the pivot arm away from its bump stop. The pivot arm should move as soon as you pull the handbrake lever. But when you release the handbrake lever the pivot arm should move back to its bump stop. You were right to ask for advice because this seems to be something a lot of people get wrong. There is a guy on the Fiat Forum who appears to have changed his brake shoes and drums before he realised his problem of an ineffective hand brake was simply incorrect cable adjustment! This is a link to the thread - I also post on there http://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/242936-how-good-your-handbrake-new-shape.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryW Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Very helpful, especially when you aren't aware of the second point of adjustment but any recommendations on how much travel should be on the handbrake at the end? Not knowing otherwise I went for "4 clicks". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 terryW - 2011-11-15 4:39 PM Very helpful, especially when you aren't aware of the second point of adjustment but any recommendations on how much travel should be on the handbrake at the end? Not knowing otherwise I went for "4 clicks". 4 clicks should be fine as long as the back wheels spin freely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 terryW - 2011-11-15 4:39 PM when you aren't aware of the second point of adjustment . As another afterthought I guess thats why it happened. If the guys on the Fiat Forum thread were only aware of the one adjustment point 1a, so kept adjusting it there to compensate for all the cable stretch in the system, they would reach the stage where the pivot arm was at such an angle, the leverage would be reduced so there was much less tension on the rear cables. The handbrake would be so weak, they would then replace the discs/drums and shoes, which made no difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Peter James, Can you post the text from the manual please. It is actually important the precedures are carried out as instructed and the shoes are reset using the auto adjusters to the correct position. ( I think it is turn adjuster through inspection holes so shoes contact drum, then turn back ten teeth) Also the pivot and cable to hand brake lever should be adjusted so when the hand brake is fully down the pivot arm is just clear of its stop position. The rear cables are adjusted with the hand brake in the 3rd click position to take up cable tension and put the shoes in contact with drum. Then about a 25Kg upward force on handbrake should put in in the 4th click position, and rear cables adjusted further to achieve this. Handbrake cables do not normally stretch, even with brute force they do not permanently get stretched. Usually slackening off means they have not been adjusted right in the 1st place, or the self adjuster is faulty and not working which is the most common fault with handbrakes. Most will probably find if they just manually adjust the self adjuster it will take a lot more than 10 teeth to get shoes in contact with the drums indicating it has not been working correctly, by setting correctly this is often enough to get the handbrake tension corrected....and working more effectively as well. Just tightening up the cables is not sufficient as then the clearance between shoes and drum is too large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 In the early 1960s when I served my apprenticeship as a mechanic there were still a lot of cars about with purely mechanical brakes. After checking that the brake on each wheel was actually operating, adjustment began at the drum and worked towards the pedal/ handbrake lever. As per Brambles advice, some things don't change much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 To reduce the chance of the hand brake cable stretching I leave ours parked in gear with the hand brake off as far as possible. Also reduces any chance of the brakes sticking on as happened to a mate of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Brambles - 2011-11-17 10:08 AM Peter James, Can you post the text from the manual please. . Unable to paste it here, I have attached the text and diagrams as a Microsoft Word file, split into 2 pages to keep below the 100kb upload limit. Hopefully you can download them, and then open them with Microsoft Word? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Just to confirm it worked for me. Good job Peter. It would be wise for anyone considering doing this to read these attachments, because the actual settings vary somewhat from some of the information posted above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Thanks for letting me know it works :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 A common problemwith self adjusting handbrakes is when the cable adjustment is overtightened. This restricts the self adjustment ratchet from returning to its at rest position. As a result there is insufficient travel to work the adjuster on to the next notch. As per the Fiat instructions slack off the cables then take up the adjustment at the drum before working towards the hand lever. In my experience cables rarely stretch, usually its the self adjustment that's sticky or inoperative as above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Yes Agree, read the links as my info is not fully correct for the X250. 5 teeth and tighter gap. Glad I asked now for text to be posted. Sorry! Forgot to say thanks James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Youre Welcome. Incidentally, nowhere does it say release the handbrake lever and check the wheels spin reasonably freely. (I have sometimes found it impossible to totally eliminate any trace of binding) Would seem a worthwhile check to me, especially when they already have the wheels raised? The guys who produce these manuals know a lot more than me, and the quality of some of their drawings takes my breath away. Far more impressive than any of the stuff I have seen in modern art galleries. But I learned long ago they are not infallible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Fair comment, but you do have to remember these are produced as a guide for Professional mechanics who should know what they are doing from experience and not novice DIYers. The relevant information is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryW Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 George Collings - 2011-11-17 10:53 PM A common problemwith self adjusting handbrakes is when the cable adjustment is overtightened. This restricts the self adjustment ratchet from returning to its at rest position. As a result there is insufficient travel to work the adjuster on to the next notch. As per the Fiat instructions slack off the cables then take up the adjustment at the drum before working towards the hand lever. In my experience cables rarely stretch, usually its the self adjustment that's sticky or inoperative as above. My thanks to all. I think I have just fallen into this trap, having adjusted not because the travel was very excessive but because the lever was getting clobbered by the swivel seat. I think a re-visit is due on the next dry day. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 terryW - 2011-11-18 9:13 AM George Collings - 2011-11-17 10:53 PM A common problemwith self adjusting handbrakes is when the cable adjustment is overtightened. This restricts the self adjustment ratchet from returning to its at rest position. As a result there is insufficient travel to work the adjuster on to the next notch. As per the Fiat instructions slack off the cables then take up the adjustment at the drum before working towards the hand lever. In my experience cables rarely stretch, usually its the self adjustment that's sticky or inoperative as above. My thanks to all. I think I have just fallen into this trap, having adjusted not because the travel was very excessive but because the lever was getting clobbered by the swivel seat. I think a re-visit is due on the next dry day. :-( I would have thought that as the shoes wear this reduction in cable travel preventing the self adjusters winding on would correct itself.? The important thing with the reduced cable travel is that the road wheels are still free to turn when the handbrake lever is relased, which is best checked by simply turning them by hand. I can see it might be a problem if the shoes were part of the main braking system (footbrake). But in this case the shoes, with their self adjusters, are nothing to do with the footbrake. The footbrake works on a disc on the outside of the drum, which is shaped like a top hat. As long as the shoes are working and releasing on the handbrake cable thats all that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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