Daytime Running Lights: 2011 Fiat Ducato

[Frank McAuley]

RE above: has anybody any info please? (!)

[Hawcara]

I maybe wrong here, but I think that new vehicles from 2012 have to be fitted with them and they come on when the ignition is switched on. HGV's buses are in a few years. However, most European countries do not expect headlights to be used in place of them unless DLR's are fitted. Someone will hopefully clarify this. (?)

[Caddies104]

If you google daytime running lights, and then click on Halfords site it explains some of it, but wait for replies as "They will come"

 

 

[colin]

I would suggest you don't take too much notice of Halfords as they are wrong to say it applies to "all new vehicle types must be fitted with the lights from 7th February 2011", at moment it applies to cars and light vans, larger vehicles next year.

Our april 2011 reg Ducato L4 does not have DRL's

[Robinhood]

The point at which they have to be fitted to a "new" vehicle is, AIUI, associated with the date at which the vehicle type is submitted for Type Approval.

 

Hence, vehicles in an ongoing production series which has already been approved don't need to have them fitted, even if they are being sold after that date.

 

There is no requirement to retrofit to vehicles without them.

 

Some manufacturers had pre-empted the requirement, hence the growing number on the roads that already have them.

[Mel B]

What Colin has said is correct. Also, wheen DRLs are fitted, they must come on automatically I believe but must also go off when main-beam headlights are used. Some countries do require you to drive with your lights on regardless of whether you have DRLs fitted or not, can't remember which ones exactly though.

 

 

[Patricia]

The AA has published some information http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/safety/daytime-running-lights.html.

I believe that all new cars produced in France this year have permanent lights during the day and I assume these are the LED ones.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Robinhood - 2011-11-20 9:22 PM

 

The point at which they have to be fitted to a "new" vehicle is, AIUI, associated with the date at which the vehicle type is submitted for Type Approval.

 

Hence, vehicles in an ongoing production series which has already been approved don't need to have them fitted, even if they are being sold after that date.

 

There is no requirement to retrofit to vehicles without them.

 

Some manufacturers had pre-empted the requirement, hence the growing number on the roads that already have them.

 

Yes and hence the growing numbers that fecking blind you, especially those fecking Audis, safety, no just more b*****ks

[Derek Uzzell]

Patricia - 2011-11-20 10:04 PM

 

The AA has published some information http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/safety/daytime-running-lights.html.

I believe that all new cars produced in France this year have permanent lights during the day and I assume these are the LED ones.

 

Patricia

 

Your link doesn't work (it's the full-stop at the end that does the damage), but this one does:

 

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/safety/daytime-running-lights.html

 

(A general comment... Before submitting a posting with links in it I find it useful to preview the posting and check that the links function as I anticipate. Usually they will but not always, particularly if I've been messing about with the posting's wording.)

[Derek Uzzell]

1footinthegrave - 2011-11-20 10:45 PM

 

Robinhood - 2011-11-20 9:22 PM

 

The point at which they have to be fitted to a "new" vehicle is, AIUI, associated with the date at which the vehicle type is submitted for Type Approval.

 

Hence, vehicles in an ongoing production series which has already been approved don't need to have them fitted, even if they are being sold after that date.

 

There is no requirement to retrofit to vehicles without them.

 

Some manufacturers had pre-empted the requirement, hence the growing number on the roads that already have them.

 

Yes and hence the growing numbers that fecking blind you, especially those fecking Audis, safety, no just more b*****ks

 

Derek Uzzell - 2011-11-21 7:04 AM

 

1footinthegrave - 2011-11-20 6:18 PM

 

Its all a bit of fun Derek, just because some think its all a load of b*****ks ( me included ) does not really matter...............

 

Absolutely right, I'll remind you of that next time you get on your high horse and go into rant-mode. ;-)

 

Well, that didn't take long....!!!!!!!!!!!

[Derek Uzzell]

There's a DRL-related thread that may be useful on this link:

 

http://www.talkford.com/topic/157343-fitting-drls-regulations/

 

If anyone is contemplating retro-fitting DRLs to their MOTORHOME using a 'kit', care may be needed. This exercise was covered in a French motorhome magazine some months back, but a follow-up piece was required to deal with an idiosyncrasy that will apply to some motorcaravans.

 

The problem lay with the DRL kit covered in the French article having being designed for cars, with the DRLs being activated by the car's battery-voltage rising when the vehicle's engine was started. This was fine for a car and OK for a motorhome when it was being driven. However, some French motorcaravanners who had fitted the kit following reading the magazine article reported that their DRLs began to operate when their motorhomes were connected to a 230V hook-up. The reason for this (if I remember correctly) was that those motorhomes' on-board charging system charged the vehicle-battery as well as the leisure-battery and, when the battery-charger began to raise the vehicle-battery's voltage, the DRL's black-box 'thought' the motorhome's engine was running. The follow-up piece described how to add a relay to side-step the problem.

 

Personally, I don't dislike DRLs as long as they are sensibly positioned on the vehicle. What I don't like, though, is when the DRLs become a style-feature at the expense of practicality. It seems to me that, wherever 'strip type' DRLs are located, the strip should be horizontal (or somewhere near horizontal). Some cars (eg the Citroen DS3) have the strip in the vertical plane and I find that very disconcerting as it somehow seems to swamp other (perhaps more important) lights such as turn-indicators.

[Derek Uzzell]

There's also discussion on the MHF forum with a lot of useful DRL Ducato-related information:

 

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-94155-0-days0-orderasc-.html

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Not another rant on my part as you put it merely a statement of facts collated by world wide studies into DRLs, the only personal point I would make is that surely the most vulnerable should be the most visible, to that end perhaps all pedestrians should have flashing beacons on their heads in case someone cannot see them, just imagine how such a proposal would be received, and yet we cannot see a bus without DRL or a thumping big White Motorhome ! !

The day I can't see another vehicle or a pedestrian in good visibility is the day I hand my driving licence in.

 

There is no real evidence that DRL are a safety feature, particularly if all vehicles use DRL

 

DRL promote road rage, safety should never be annoying or dangerous

 

They are inefficient in both fuel cost and lamp replacement cost, both of which are passed on to the driver

 

They cause visual fatigue and reduce a driver’s ability to perceive hazards – vulnerable road users are put at risk

 

If a driver cannot see a car or a bus without it’s headlights on, how are they going to spot your child?

 

A driver should not be allowed a licence if they cannot see other vehicles without headlights on in good daylight

[Guest Chloe MMM]

Hi everyone,

 

We actually have a feature on this website explaining DRL. It's in the features area of the motorhome section where we publish handy guides on legislations, accessory fitting etc.

 

See the link below:

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/Motorhomes/Features/Get-Practical/Daytime-Running-Lights-explained/_ch1_ft667

 

Thanks,

Chloë

[Rod_vw]

Hi Chloë,

 

How nice to see a heads up from a member of the publishers team, long may it last.

 

[neillking]

They are increasingly popular as a retro-fit at least as far as we can see from our own trading. My preference is for the Ring Aurora which is chunky enough to look suitable for a more susbstantial vehicle and also comes with a voltage sensing controller that makes for a simple install that is fully automatic in line with the regs. We have these fitted to our own 'van. For those who have a charging voltage going to the battery while stationary (some solar & hook-ups) it is a fairly simple matter to either wire into an ignition-live circuit rather than direct to battery or to introduce an ignition circuit relay for the same effect. There has been a bit of a fashion for the funky bendy LEDs to mimic Audi, Citroen, et al but that seems to be dying away now they are becoming relatively commonplace. As ever, I guess, once you get away from the trendsetters who want to be the first to have the newest gadgets there is some extra interest in function rather than form!

[Guest Tracker]

Call me old fashioned - but what's wrong with simply switching the side lights on if you want running lights on during the day?

 

Or is working a light switch just too complex for some folks these days with so many other things to remember - like checking the compass and the inclinometer!!!!!!

 

 

[neillking]

Experience round here suggests that many are incapable of assessing 'impaired visibility' or for that matter even noticing it's dark. Daytime fog also seems invisible to many. I believe 'side lights' are illegal in those circumstances too - when they are in any case useless. The essence of DRLs is that they are high intensity and so gloom, rain, spray and fog pentrating, are for daytime use only and cannot be forgotten by the driver - whether switching on or off. I have to say I'm convinced they are a good idea though it may be that some designs are better than others and that aspect may yet be further regulated. Either way its coming whether any or all of us like it or not!

[bolero boy]

I support Neil on this one.

The number of School Run Mums pootling about in the Autumnal gloom with no lights on is horrific. Sometimes, it's so dark you wonder how they see the dashboard instruments let alone whats going on around them.

Detractor's don't seem to realise it's all about being seen not aiding the driver's range of vision a la normal headlights.

Oh and yes (onefoot) I am a 'fekkin' Audi driver', thanks.

[Guest Tracker]

I am not against DRLs but I am capable of judging when to use appropriate lights as are, I suspect, most of us experienced drivers on this forum?

 

If and when I ever get a vehicle with DRLs fitted I suppose I will then only have to worry about when to use fogligts and/or dipped or main beam - but until then I guess I will just have to go on worrying about when to use sidelights as well!

 

It's tough being a driver these days innit!

 

[Patricia]

They seem to be a very good idea to me. I am forever seeing people who drive around without lights even in very heavy rain and fog etc. I have my lights set on automatic and sometimes they fail to light even when it is raining so have to set them manually.

I know it was only a joke in an earlier post about people wearing them but so many wear dark clothes, often with hoods, and cross the road very nonchallently, particularly youths, it is quite frightening when they appear very suddenly in front of me, likewise with cyclists without lights. Many areas near where I live, even in 30 limits, are unlit.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Patricia - 2011-11-21 3:33 PM

 

 

I know it was only a joke in an earlier post about people wearing them but so many wear dark clothes, often with hoods, and cross the road very nonchallently, particularly youths, it is quite frightening when they appear very suddenly in front of me, likewise with cyclists without lights. Many areas near where I live, even in 30 limits, are unlit.

 

And that is exactly the point, you are MORE likely to be temporarily blinded by some of these DRL's especially as fitted to Audis ( sorry Audi owners ) as they approach you, and so are even less likely to see the pedestrians. This is the most vulnerable group they are not in a reinforced steel box, so ask yourself this, who is likely to come of worse in a collision scenario, you running into an "unlit" child , or the Audi with ten air bags that you just happened not to see. IMO a flawed policy, ill thought out.

[Derek Uzzell]

1footinthegrave - 2011-11-21 10:47 AM

 

Not another rant on my part as you put it merely a statement of facts collated by world wide studies into DRLs...

 

Sounded remarkably like a "rant" to me (though I admit that "fecking" is not a word I'm acquainted with, so I may have missed something that was critical to your argument). As you've now mentioned "world wide studies into DRLs" to justify it, now's your chance to identify the studies that provide the "facts".

 

During the last 40 years, many studies have been carried out worldwide that have tended to conclude that DRLs improve safety.

 

For example, in 1997 a thorough review of effectiveness was conducted by SWOV (Institute for Road Safety Research, The Netherlands). This re- evaluated numerous DRL studies and reported on accident reductions, latitude effects, costs and benefits and some technical issues. Key findings related to effectiveness were:

 

• Failing to see another road user in time (or at all) is a contributing factor in 50% of all daytime accidents and 80% of all daytime intersection accidents.

 

• DRLs improve visibility (detection) but also improve reaction times and estimation of speed and distance.

 

• Meta analysis of mid-latitude effectiveness studies revealed statistically significant accident reductions but a reasonably strong latitude effect. For example, the USA and Israel had about one third of the reduction in relevant accidents of that experienced in Scandinavian countries.

 

• The largest savings are in high severity accidents. It was estimated that full application of DRLs across all EU countries would prevent 24.6% of fatalities in multi-vehicle daytime accidents, 20.0% of casualties in multi-vehicle daytime accidents and 12.4% of all multi-vehicle daytime accidents (i.e. about half the rate of serious accidents)

 

The report noted that DRL-influenced accidents such as head-on collisions and intersection collisions tend to be the most severe. For similar reasons DRL benefits for pedestrians were probably greater than for motor vehicle occupants.

[Brian Kirby]

There seems to me some confusion.

DRLs operate at the front of the vehicle only, should operate as soon as the engine is started, and should go off when other lights are in use.

Used as intended, in daylight, there should be no question of anyone being dazzled, or blinded, by them.

They are intended to enable, primarily pedestrians (including those with impaired vision), to more clearly see approaching vehicles.

They can also make the direction of travel of distant vehicles more obvious, which in some visibility conditions can aid overtaking decisions.

They can also aid visibility of oncoming vehicles in strong light, for example against low sun.

Sidelights, as such, no longer really exist, they are parking lights, or position lights, not for moving vehicles, and in some countries using these on a moving vehicle is now illegal.

Dipped headlamps can be used, a la Volvo, instead of DRLs - and in some vehicles, e.g.our Transit, the dips can be set to function as DRLs. The biggest disadvantage of this approach, IMO, is the additional glare created off wet roads, especially when it is gloomy. Proper DRLs, under these conditions, help drivers to see oncoming vehicles without the glare of dipped headlamps. Some of the reaction against DRLs comes from N America, where far more powerful lights were permitted than is legal in Europe, resulting in veiling glare.

[Colin Leake]

Modest DRLs yes fine a good idea but the mad extent to which some manufacturers seem to be going to to out do each other is plain silly and very distracting. It used to be the Germans who were the worst offenders but the French seem to be catching fast. I look at some of their efforts and think to myself hell I'd never drive a naff car like that!