Advice on importing.

[Guest Had Enough]

It would be nice if those who know could run us through the steps taken in buying a motorhome from Germany or Belgium. Regulations change and perhaps it's time for a new advice thread.

 

Things that interest me include whether or not a German dealer can order a Hymer for me with LHD but with lights and speedometer suitable for the UK. Or do we have to supply these ourselves for the dealer to fit, as I believe Judge had to do recently? His though was a second-hand model as opposed to a new build.

 

LHD makes sense for me as most of our travelling is done is Europe and I'm impressed with a firm in Cologne called Beck's, which appears to be a massive Hymer dealer. I like their package deals where they'll supply a new 'van complete with awning, solar panel, satellite dish and TV, reversing camera etc. etc.

 

It's so much easier to get the lot done at once rather then having all this stuff fitted when you get home.

 

Cologne is a city I've been visiting on business for forty years and I know it well. Not a good reason for choosing a particular dealer I know but I feel comfortable there!

 

http://www.reisemobile-beck.de/reisemobile-beck-verkauf.htm

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

Has been done to death...look in sites search facilitiy

 

Ask them this: will they obtain and swap hedlights for UK compliant ones. Fit a Lockwood MPH speedo ( lockwood will send directly to dealer). change fog light

 

secondly will they drive it to port for you.

 

Not charge you German VAT ( as long as you send proof of UK VAT payed directly your back)

 

If they are any good they will..This makes the process dead easy :-D

[Guest Had Enough]

JudgeMental - 2014-08-30 8:19 PM

 

Has been done to death...look in sites search facilitiy

 

Ask them this: will they obtain and swap hedlights for UK compliant ones. Fit a Lockwood MPH speedo ( lockwood will send directly to dealer). change fog light

 

secondly will they drive it to port for you.

 

Not charge you German VAT ( as long as you send proof of UK VAT payed directly your back)

 

If they are any good they will..This makes the process dead easy :-D

 

I have and there's lots to get my teeth into but I was more concerned about any recent changes in legislation. But your tips above are useful.

 

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

No changes that I know of and we got our van in February this year. Even if the dealer does not do the changes its pretty straightforward, but will delay the registration here....

[Derek Uzzell]

There’s a fairly detailed 2011 ‘importing’ discussion here

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Importing-from-Germany/22354/

 

In recent years obtaining insurance from UK providers for any part of the journey from a Continental European motorhome dealership to a UK buyer’s home seems to have become more complicated. It’s also become pretty much inevitable that an imported motorhome’s UK technical ‘legality’ (lights, speedometer-scale) will be checked as part of the UK-registration process.

 

If you bought a new LHD A-class model, there’s a fair chance that its headlamps would not need to be changed, but the kmh speedometer would need attention and possibly the position of the rear fog-light.

 

If the motorhome (whatever its type) is based on the latest ‘facelifted’ Citroen/Fiat/Peugeot X290 chassis, you’d need to explore the cost if the headlamp units needed to be replaced. It’s almost certainly too early for there to be cheap ‘pattern’ units to be available and the new lights could be costly, particularly if they include the optional LED daytime running lights.

 

Similarly, as the X290’s instrument-cluster differs from that of the superseded X250 it may be some time before specialists (like Lockwood) produce an overlay dial. If no overlay is available the only alternative may be to replace the complete instrument-cluster.

 

While LHD may make sense in principle for motorcaravanners travelling a lot abroad, probably the best approach from a financial point of view might be to specify a RHD UK-specification vehicle and obtain it from a Continental dealership. The mark-up for RHD in this instance may be relatively small (though the lead-time for delivery could be a lot longer) and there should then be no potential lights/speedometer problems and less of a financial ‘hit’ when the motorhome is eventually disposed of. Hymer used to be prepared to supply Contintental dealers with RHD UK-spec models, but I don’t know what the situation now is.

 

I don’t think there’s any chance a Continental dealer will be able to order a LHD motorhome factory-fitted with the lights and speedometer that would be found in the RHD equivalent. Any lights/speedometer changes necessary for UK-registration compliance would need to be made after the converter had delivered the motorhome to the dealer.

[Guest Peter James]

JudgeMental - 2014-08-30 8:19 PM

 

Has been done to death...look in sites search facilitiy

 

 

Would be so much easier if somebody went to the trouble of posting the main points in one thread .......

[Guest Peter James]

Derek Uzzell - 2014-08-31 9:28 AM

 

There’s a fairly detailed 2011 ‘importing’ discussion here

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Importing-from-Germany/22354/

 

In recent years obtaining insurance from UK providers for any part of the journey from a Continental European motorhome dealership to a UK buyer’s home seems to have become more complicated. It’s also become pretty much inevitable that an imported motorhome’s UK technical ‘legality’ (lights, speedometer-scale) will be checked as part of the UK-registration process.

 

If you bought a new LHD A-class model, there’s a fair chance that its headlamps would not need to be changed, but the kmh speedometer would need attention and possibly the position of the rear fog-light.

 

If the motorhome (whatever its type) is based on the latest ‘facelifted’ Citroen/Fiat/Peugeot X290 chassis, you’d need to explore the cost if the headlamp units needed to be replaced. It’s almost certainly too early for there to be cheap ‘pattern’ units to be available and the new lights could be costly, particularly if they include the optional LED daytime running lights.

 

Similarly, as the X290’s instrument-cluster differs from that of the superseded X250 it may be some time before specialists (like Lockwood) produce an overlay dial. If no overlay is available the only alternative may be to replace the complete instrument-cluster.

 

While LHD may make sense in principle for motorcaravanners travelling a lot abroad, probably the best approach from a financial point of view might be to specify a RHD UK-specification vehicle and obtain it from a Continental dealership. The mark-up for RHD in this instance may be relatively small (though the lead-time for delivery could be a lot longer) and there should then be no potential lights/speedometer problems and less of a financial ‘hit’ when the motorhome is eventually disposed of. Hymer used to be prepared to supply Contintental dealers with RHD UK-spec models, but I don’t know what the situation now is.

 

I don’t think there’s any chance a Continental dealer will be able to order a LHD motorhome factory-fitted with the lights and speedometer that would be found in the RHD equivalent. Any lights/speedometer changes necessary for UK-registration compliance would need to be made after the converter had delivered the motorhome to the dealer.

 

Helpful Post, Thanks

[Guest Had Enough]

Derek Uzzell - 2014-08-31 9:28 AM

 

There’s a fairly detailed 2011 ‘importing’ discussion here

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Importing-from-Germany/22354/

 

In recent years obtaining insurance from UK providers for any part of the journey from a Continental European motorhome dealership to a UK buyer’s home seems to have become more complicated. It’s also become pretty much inevitable that an imported motorhome’s UK technical ‘legality’ (lights, speedometer-scale) will be checked as part of the UK-registration process.

 

If you bought a new LHD A-class model, there’s a fair chance that its headlamps would not need to be changed, but the kmh speedometer would need attention and possibly the position of the rear fog-light.

 

If the motorhome (whatever its type) is based on the latest ‘facelifted’ Citroen/Fiat/Peugeot X290 chassis, you’d need to explore the cost if the headlamp units needed to be replaced. It’s almost certainly too early for there to be cheap ‘pattern’ units to be available and the new lights could be costly, particularly if they include the optional LED daytime running lights.

 

Similarly, as the X290’s instrument-cluster differs from that of the superseded X250 it may be some time before specialists (like Lockwood) produce an overlay dial. If no overlay is available the only alternative may be to replace the complete instrument-cluster.

 

While LHD may make sense in principle for motorcaravanners travelling a lot abroad, probably the best approach from a financial point of view might be to specify a RHD UK-specification vehicle and obtain it from a Continental dealership. The mark-up for RHD in this instance may be relatively small (though the lead-time for delivery could be a lot longer) and there should then be no potential lights/speedometer problems and less of a financial ‘hit’ when the motorhome is eventually disposed of. Hymer used to be prepared to supply Contintental dealers with RHD UK-spec models, but I don’t know what the situation now is.

 

I don’t think there’s any chance a Continental dealer will be able to order a LHD motorhome factory-fitted with the lights and speedometer that would be found in the RHD equivalent. Any lights/speedometer changes necessary for UK-registration compliance would need to be made after the converter had delivered the motorhome to the dealer.

 

I'm so glad I asked these questions. I would never have thought of asking a German dealer to order a UK specification for me. That may well be a good move. I'm happy with either RHD or LHD but I particularly like the idea of being free from a lot of potential hassle regarding headlights and speedos.

 

One other question if you don't mind? Brian K has raised the problem of payload. Both the Exsis CB and A-Class are available with an upgrade to 3.85T which would give me a superb payload.

 

Is this just a paper/plating exercise or do the upgraded models have mechanical changes such as stronger suspension etc?

[Derek Uzzell]

I don’t know whether the Hymer ‘uprate’ to 3850kg involves any mechanical changes. If the uprate is free, almost certainly no mechanical alterations will be involved: if there’s a significant financial penalty for the uprate it’s likely something will have been changed to handle the extra weight. I’m pretty sure Brian Kirby will have explored this and will be able to advise.

 

I believe you are hovering on becoming a septuagenarian when, in the UK, driving-licence entitlements are restricted to 3500kg-maximum vehicles unless a medical examination is passed. When I reached 70 recently I allowed my vehicles-up-to-7500kg entitlement lapse, not because my health/eyesight etc. would prevent me from passing the medical examination required to retain that entitlement, but because I couldn’t see myself ever NEEDING to drive a vehicle heavier than 3500kg.

 

My view is that, if one is approaching 70, there’s a real risk that a decision to buy an over-3500kg motorhome will backfire. In your case, while it might be argued that, if a Hymer motorhome can be obtained in 3500kg and 3850kg formats and unexpected health problems demanded it, ‘downrating’ the 3850kg version to 3500kg should be straightforward. However, if you bought the 3850kg version to gain an extra 350kg payload, then festooned the vehicle with heavy add-ons, you might find subsequently downrating the vehicle to 3500kg left you with little useful payload remaining.

 

Depends how optimistic you feel...

[lennyhb]

Only regulations that have changed over the last few years is you now need a certificate from the VCA if it is LHD, to get this need vehicle inspected by garage/MOT station to say speedo & lights comply. other change is you have to pay the VAT before you can register it, Oh & it takes 10 times as long now there are no local offices.

 

RHD Hymer is €1500 extra and will come with full UK spec including 13amp sockets our last van was RHD brought in Belgium.

 

If LHD, speed dial will need changing dead easy take about 10min. If A Class behind fancy headlamp units it's a Hella projector lamp that can be changed to flat dipping in a couple of mins., if a CB you will need to change the headlams, LHD with beam benders are legal for an MOT but not accepted by VCA . Hymer fit twin rear fog lamps so no problem there.

 

Both Exsis CB & A Class can be had with 3700kg chassis on smaller ones and 3850kg on larger ones the larger ones also have the option of 4250kg maxi chassis.

 

Steps for buying, order it, pay for it, bring it home, get inspected and VCA certificate, pay VAT & register it.

It really is very easy.

You will only get full insurance on UK soil our Belgium dealer drives the van to the port so the only risk we take is on the ferry.

 

I'm in shock never thought I would ever reply to one of Frank's posts again.

[lennyhb]

lennyhb - 2014-09-01 11:16 AM

 

Only regulations that have changed over the last few years is you now need a certificate from the VCA if it is LHD, to get this need vehicle inspected by garage/MOT station to say speedo & lights comply. other change is you have to pay the VAT before you can register it, Oh & it takes 10 times as long now there are no local offices.

 

RHD Hymer is €1500 extra and will come with full UK spec including 13amp sockets our last van was RHD brought in Belgium.

 

If LHD, speed dial will need changing dead easy take about 10min. If A Class behind fancy headlamp units it's a Hella projector lamp that can be changed to flat dipping in a couple of mins., if a CB you will need to change the headlams, LHD with beam benders are legal for an MOT but not accepted by VCA . Hymer fit twin rear fog lamps so no problem there.

 

Both Exsis CB & A Class can be had with 3700kg chassis on smaller ones and 3850kg on larger ones the larger ones also have the option of 4250kg maxi chassis.

 

Steps for buying, order it, pay for it, bring it home, get inspected and VCA certificate, pay VAT & register it.

It really is very easy.

You will only get full insurance on UK soil our Belgium dealer drives the van to the port so the only risk we take is on the ferry.

 

I'm in shock never thought I would ever reply to one of Frank's posts again.

 

Edit:

Hired from Becks twice, 1st time very good experience, 2nd time not so good, had a new guy doing the hire a right ar*ehole, wanted to deduct our deposit because the van was dirty,- 3 blades of grass in the garage and a few coffee grounds in a locker. General impression they are a good dealer.

[Derek Uzzell]

lennyhb - 2014-09-01 11:16 AM

 

...If LHD, speed dial will need changing dead easy take about 10min...

 

But see my post of 31 August 2014 9:28 AM above.

 

As I expect you are aware there are number of variations in the instrument-cluster dials fitted to ‘X250’ vehicles and Lockwood has been able to provide appropriate replacements displaying an mph scale as well as the obligatory kmh scale.

 

The instrument-cluster of the latest ‘X290’ differs from the X250’s and there’s no indication on Lockwood’s website that an X290 replacement dial is available yet.

 

It’s probable that the same “dead easy" procedure can be used to replace an X290’s dial and quite likely that a Lockwood X250-suitable dial could be employed to make an imported LHD X290 UK-registration-legal as far as the mph/kmh scales are concerned. But the X250 Lockwood dial won’t exactly match the X290 original and some of the latter’s warning icons won’t show up.

 

Whether this will matter to the motorhome buyer is anybody’s guess, but (until Lockwood produces a dedicated X290 dial) it needs bearing in mind.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Get dealer to take photo of speedo with lights on..send to Lockwood and they should be able to replicate.

[Guest Had Enough]

lennyhb - 2014-09-01 11:16 AM

 

I'm in shock never thought I would ever reply to one of Frank's posts again.

 

Thank you and I'm glad that you did. When you're not talking utter bollox about CC wardens you can be quite helpful. ;-)

 

I'm happy to help anyone if there's something I know about and they don't. Which isn't much admittedly. (lol)

[Guest Had Enough]

lennyhb - 2014-09-01 11:41 AM

 

Edit:

Hired from Becks twice, 1st time very good experience, 2nd time not so good, had a new guy doing the hire a right ar*ehole, wanted to deduct our deposit because the van was dirty,- 3 blades of grass in the garage and a few coffee grounds in a locker. General impression they are a good dealer.

 

That's reassuring and thanks again for your help. Don't get into the habit though! ;-)

[Guest Had Enough]

Derek Uzzell - 2014-09-01 9:11 AM

 

I don’t know whether the Hymer ‘uprate’ to 3850kg involves any mechanical changes. If the uprate is free, almost certainly no mechanical alterations will be involved: if there’s a significant financial penalty for the uprate it’s likely something will have been changed to handle the extra weight. I’m pretty sure Brian Kirby will have explored this and will be able to advise.

 

I believe you are hovering on becoming a septuagenarian when, in the UK, driving-licence entitlements are restricted to 3500kg-maximum vehicles unless a medical examination is passed. When I reached 70 recently I allowed my vehicles-up-to-7500kg entitlement lapse, not because my health/eyesight etc. would prevent me from passing the medical examination required to retain that entitlement, but because I couldn’t see myself ever NEEDING to drive a vehicle heavier than 3500kg.

 

My view is that, if one is approaching 70, there’s a real risk that a decision to buy an over-3500kg motorhome will backfire. In your case, while it might be argued that, if a Hymer motorhome can be obtained in 3500kg and 3850kg formats and unexpected health problems demanded it, ‘downrating’ the 3850kg version to 3500kg should be straightforward. However, if you bought the 3850kg version to gain an extra 350kg payload, then festooned the vehicle with heavy add-ons, you might find subsequently downrating the vehicle to 3500kg left you with little useful payload remaining.

 

Depends how optimistic you feel...

 

Yes, I've given this much thought as it had occurred to me. However, I have an annual check-up and am currently as fit as the meat vendor's canine chum. It's a risk I'll be happy to take if it comes to it but, should I ever have a health problem I'll be ready then then to ditch the towbar, heavy ebike carrier and two even heavier ebikes, so I'm fairly confident that I would have no problem replating to to 3500kg.

 

Hymer charges a couple of hundred quit for the 3850 kg option but whether they do anything mechanical I haven't been able to ascertain.

 

Are you there BK? :-D

[lennyhb]

JudgeMental - 2014-09-01 12:33 PM

 

Get dealer to take photo of speedo with lights on..send to Lockwood and they should be able to replicate.

 

No don't do it that way my dealer took a photo of a van in the showroom it was different to the one on my van.

[Guest Peter James]

Had Enough - 2014-09-01 1:35 PM

I have an annual check-up and am currently as fit as the meat vendor's canine chum.

But not as intelligent ;-)

[Derek Uzzell]

JudgeMental - 2014-09-01 12:33 PM

 

Get dealer to take photo of speedo with lights on..send to Lockwood and they should be able to replicate.

 

It’s not that simple, I’m afraid, as not only is there a more extensive set of ‘icons’ that can appear on an X290’s instrument-cluster in different positions to those on an X250’s display, but the kmh scale itself also differs.

 

An X250’s kmh speedometer reads to 180kmh, whereas an X290’s can (potentially) read to 200kmh over the same ‘rotational’ distance. Consequently, if the kmh dial were removed from an X290’s instrument-cluster (and that assumes that it’s still possible to do this as, as far as I’m aware, nobody has imported a LHD X290 yet and been able to confirm that a dial-swap is still straightforward) replacing the X290 dial with an X250-suitable one tweaked by Lockwood so that the icon positions matched would still be unsatisfactory as the replacement dial would significantly under-read.

 

What’s needed is a brand-new replacement mph/kmh dial specific to the X290 and, although it’s quite likely that Lockwood will produce one eventually, this may not be in the short-term. That’s why I said earlier

 

“...as the X290’s instrument-cluster differs from that of the superseded X250 it may be some time before specialists (like Lockwood) produce an overlay dial. If no overlay is available the only alternative may be to replace the complete instrument-cluster."

[lennyhb]

An x 250 dial would probably be good enough to get it through a check to get your VCA certificate, they only glance at it to see its mph. Then swap it back to the kmh one, then you can change it you so wish when avalible.

[Brian Kirby]

Had Enough - 2014-09-01 1:35 PM..........................Are you there BK? :-D

You called? :-)

 

Can't answer for the 3,850kg option, ours is 3,700kg. That was a €250 extra, and the individual axle loads remained unchanged from the standard 3,500kg at 1850kg front and 2,000Kg rear.

 

The 3,850kg option was the same price and as Lenny says, limited to the larger vans.

 

We actually run at about 1,640kg front and 1,860kg rear, so nicely balanced, and with comfortable margins both ends.

 

For the same money one could also take the 4.25 tonne "heavy" chassis to 4.5 tonnes, so I think it is a purely administrative job with no mechanical intervention involved.

 

FWIW, ours has Goldschmitt front springs in lieu of the standard Fiat springs (comfort pack) and I was expecting these to deliver some additional load capacity at the front. They do not, and when I queried why, in that case, they bothered fitting them, the answer was greater comfort. I think, in fact, it is to raise the front a little as the vans otherwise run somewhet nose down on the standard springs. They have since changed the description of this modification in a way that suggests they now do something different.

 

I'd be a little bit wary of the 3,850kg MAM uplift, as unless they now add some supplementary load carrying somewhere, it is merely the total of the two axle maxima. Thinking one could exploit the extra 150kg (relative to the 3,700kg option) to any extent, would seem to me to risk overloading one, or other, axle.

[soarer]

interesting, what are the savings made ? of course there is the exchange rate ,but as a percentage

 

is there an average ballpark figure?

[bowser]

I would advice anyone buying from abroad and bringing the vehicle in themselves, to get all the paperwork needed and carry it with you, to show your intention to register, by that I mean all the registration forms etc all filled in ready to go.

Its actually against the law for any UK resident to drive any foreign registered vehicle on uk roads, if you are importing and have insurance issued from a UK MID registered company insured on the VIN number and you have paperwork to show that you are intending to register you should avoid issues, just remember that once its in the uk you cannot use it on or keep it on a public highway, the exceptions being to or from inspections or work required to make it comply with uk regulations.

[lennyhb]

soarer - 2014-09-01 6:06 PM

 

interesting, what are the savings made ? of course there is the exchange rate ,but as a percentage

 

is there an average ballpark figure?

 

On a Hymer 10-12k

[lennyhb]

bowser - 2014-09-01 8:09 PM

 

I would advice anyone buying from abroad and bringing the vehicle in themselves, to get all the paperwork needed and carry it with you, to show your intention to register, by that I mean all the registration forms etc all filled in ready to go.

Its actually against the law for any UK resident to drive any foreign registered vehicle on uk roads, if you are importing and have insurance issued from a UK MID registered company insured on the VIN number and you have paperwork to show that you are intending to register you should avoid issues, just remember that once its in the uk you cannot use it on or keep it on a public highway, the exceptions being to or from inspections or work required to make it comply with uk regulations.

 

Yes, but if buying new it will not be a foreign registered vehicle and technicaly to comply with the law you should drive it back from the port without number plates.