A Magic Trick For Scorching Hot Air

[michele]

Can anyone give me one please we have the Bessacarr on a Fiat ducato

the Air although warm to hotish could do with a magic trick .

 

Help please any advice gratefully received .

[panagah]

best get that GLOWING heater out then Michelle. Have you seen the weather????? I have been doing my off duty at work and worked it out that I will be arriving on New Years Eve cant wait!!

[michele]

So no advice then surely I have not got you all stumped *-)

Yes the weather is brilliant been looking at the webcams and some places have it real bad :D cant wait .

[Mick H.]

michele - 2007-11-15 7:26 PM

 

Can anyone give me one please we have the Bessacarr on a Fiat ducato

the Air although warm to hotish could do with a magic trick .

 

Help please any advice gratefully received .

 

I assume you mean the van heater.Got a Hymer on a fiat ducato that belts it out.Magic cure, get a Hymer.

 

 

Mick H.

[michele]

Cheers Mick for that help long may it belt it out hot *-)

[michele]

So am I to take it that no one knows anything about the heaters and a quick fix .

[BGD]

You could go carbon neutral:

 

Lots and lots of baked beans and sprouts...........and (a few hours later) a lighter.

 

Bursts of scorching hot air!

 

 

 

 

B-)

[Basil]

michele - 2007-11-16 3:20 PM

 

So am I to take it that no one knows anything about the heaters and a quick fix .

 

Problem is Michelle that if you have no problem with yours then it is difficult think of a cure for a problem you have not had. Our is perfectly hot the only complaint I have with ours is I have difficulty getting the flow dirrections to work indipendantly, i.e. to get all the heat out the lower outlet we have to put the control into the down and face position and turn of the face vents or it comes out the windscreen vents as well as the lower outlet.

 

Bas

[Brambles]

Unfortuately the heater controls set up in the fiat is not very good, for the mechanically minded and brave it can be improved where there is a problem by altering the control cables slighly, problem is it is very difficult to be able to get both full on heat and fully off to cold. For those interested its the snake cables that are the problem, the inner snake has too much slack in the outer and what one needs to do is put little kinks in the inner cable to take up that slack and then re-adjust. Just too much 'hysteresis' in the control cable.

So there you go, not simple at all.

Michele, what you could try is turning the control very rapidly from cold to hot, really throw it round to try and throw the baffles inside the heater fully to hot. It helped very slightly in mine until I 'fixed' the cables.

Also bear in mind its not particulary hot air in the Fiat anyway with the diesel engine compared to Petrol...or so I believe.

Jon.

 

p.s. Having said all the above, I only drive with a slight heat on anyway , even on the coldest of days. I find it much more comfortable just to put an anorak on and keep the air cool - just hate warm air blasting at me when driving long distances and makes me feel sleepy quicker. But do like a good blast of heat after returning to Motorhome after a walk in the cold to warm up.

[Vernon B]

michele - 2007-11-15 7:26 PM

 

Can anyone give me one please we have the Bessacarr on a Fiat ducato

the Air although warm to hotish could do with a magic trick .

 

Help please any advice gratefully received .

 

I think one of the issues here michele is that Bessacarr's and Ducators have been around in various forms for a long time so the replies your getting may not be particularly relevant.

 

It is possible that there's an airflow or water flow problem with your heater and its worth checking that. You can check hot water is getting to the heater by running the engine up to temperature and then "carefully" feeling the water hoses running to and from the heater. Similarly you can put the blower at full pelt and feel the air flow. If either of those are below par get it into a garage.

 

My own guess however is that the heater just isn't up to the job. Not withstanding the fact that Fiat heating systems have improved with the latest models they were never designed to heat the volume of a large m/home like yours.

 

In passing I've had a couple of 2.8TDI Ducator's with the same quirk. The passenger side was always worse than the drivers side (both RHD) and the heating to the driver increased substantially when you turned right!!!

 

Anyway, I'm surprised your Bessacarr didn't come fitted with a rear engine heater, certainly many were. These make a vast difference even in sub zero temperature.

 

I seem to remember another thread on this topic with some useful info so it might be worth doing a search

 

Only other tip - wrap up warm and take a car rug.

 

Vernon

 

 

 

[michele]

Thanks alot for the tips wrap up warm I,m gonna put on my long johns and then my salapets :D

[Derek Uzzell]

Michele asked me about this off-forum but, as I've got little practical experience of Fiat-based motorhomes, I suggested she seek advice via the forum.

 

Michele's motorhome is a 2006-model Bessacarr, over-cab design, on Ducato Maxi chassis with 2.8JTD motor. There is a history to this heater thing - see the following links:

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=5935&posts=24

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=6441&posts=15

 

What Michele is trying to find out is whether her motorhome's cab heater is currently functioning as well as it can, or is it possible to get it to operate more efficiently with a simple 'tweak'. Would something basic, like re-bleeding the water system, significantly improve matters? (Personally, as the heater does work and is capable of producing "warm to hot-ish" output, I tend to think it's wouldn't.)

 

If one could get several motorhomes together that matched the specification of Michele's Bessacarr, then it would be straightforward to compare heater performance across the group and establish whether or not Michele's heater is normal or below-par. As this experiment is hardly practical, the best that can be done is to obtain feedback from forum contributors who own, or have owned motorhomes with a similar specification to Michele's (Brian Kirby?) or who have 'trade' experience of the heater performance of these models of motorhome (Dave Newell?) If the consensus is that the maximum performance of cab heaters in SEVEL motorhomes similar to Michele's is uninspiring, then there's probably little point getting her heater looked at. If the general view is that one should be able to make toast on a 2006 Ducato's cab heater, then attention should be worthwhile.

[Dave Newell]

Its difficult to say because while I've driven plenty of Ducatos I've not spent that long behind the wheel of any of them, especially in cold weather. My experience of their cab heaters though is that they are generally poor, certainly not as good as the Transit for example.

 

D.

[Vernon B]

My feedback Derek, having owned two m/homes with michele's engine, is that, the heater is definitately"uninspiring". But again I would add that the heater couldn't possibly be expected to heat such a larger area in very cold conditions.

 

As I said there have been other threads on this topic with useful tips, including the suggestion of curtaining off the habitation area.

[Brian Kirby]

Michele

Does you van have any other form of heating that can be used while on the road?  If not, I think that is probably your problem.  The Fiat cab heater is designed to heat the driving cab, usually separated from the load area in a normal van, and not to heat the much larger volume of a motorhome interior. 

You can get supplementary heaters that run off the engine on some vans, but a bit late now to get one added to yours.  I think the best bet will be to try to close off the van behind the front seats, unless of course you are carrying rear seat passengers! 

Otherwise, you'll just have to run it full blast, and all wear fleeces or similar to stay warm.  Since you're heading for the snowy wastes you should have plenty of warm clothing with you, and by not overheating the van on the way down you'll all arrive acclimatised (i.e. frozen)!

Got to look on the positive side of these things, haven't you. :-)

[michele]

Thank you Derek. When I say I could'nt of put it better myself you know its true I could'nt .

 

Brian or anyone I dont mind not heating the back as you all say I expect this its not possible for that little thing to heat the size of a M/home.

I would just like it to heat the cab that would be a good start .

As I say its Warm to hotish but not brilliant even with it on full blast which is the norm it is cold in the cab area you have to wear or put a blanket over your legs . I know that the doors are not fantastic in the fiats the draughts are terrible but one can't help feeling that if the heater would or could work a little better then we would not be feeling the draughs so much.

We have no heating in the back at all and have thought about it but we are really not sure if we will keep this van long enough to warrant it .

 

So any advice re bleeding if you guys think it will work hubby will gladly give it a try . If not not to worrie thank you all anyway . ;-)

[tonyishuk]

Brian Kirby - 2007-11-18 3:51 PM

Michele

p>You can get supplementary heaters that run off the engine on some vans, but a bit late now to get one added to yours.  I think the best bet will be to try to close off the van behind the front seats, unless of course you are carrying rear seat passengers! 

We have an addittional rear heater in our Rapido and it puts out a fair bit of heat. We use it to heat the M/home rather than the cab heater.Point being I suppose that there is enough heat in the engine to heat the M/home but it aint coming from the cab heater. :-( I have passing thoughts of plumbing in a hot water tank fed from the heater hoses, Instant hot water when you stop !Rgds

[Mel B]

Michele, we've had 2 types of Fiat base vehicle and neither of their heaters was particularly good, no matter what was done to them, my dog Midge used to try to crawl up the floor level outlet to keep warm!!! 8-) If we hadn't had the rear road heating (it was a Rapido) we would've froze.

 

In the Ford we currently have (not the new model, the one before) the heater is brilliant!!! It's not as good as having a rear travel heater as well but it's not far short, it was one of the things I was concerned about when we changed vans earlier this year but so far we haven't been disappointed with it. :-D

[carioca]

michele what about buying an inverter & a small fan heater, this would work when travelling & when parked if you have electric double result (lol) (lol)

[michele]

Aiden,

PM

[flicka]

Years ago we had a Ambulance, which we converted.

It had an additional heater located at the rear beyond the wheelarch and connected into the Engine cooling system. From what I remember you only had 3 settings - Off, Heater only and Heater with fan.

The Fan was at the rear of the unit so the warm air was directed to the rear area of the van.

The Heater matrix ( a small version of a car radiator) was bigger than a normal cab heater matrix & kicked out a high volume of heat.

The normal cab heater outlet hose went under the floor to the additional heater & it's return hose connected to the engine)

They still use this system in modern Ambulance, (those I saw this week at our local hospital, were mounted immediately behind the cab) so they must still be available & it maybe an option

Should not be too expensive.

Only difficulies I would expect are bleeding the system after initial fitting & feeding the hoses inside a double floor.

On a single floor van the additional system would be protected by the Engine coolant antifreeze.

[Brambles]

flicka,

There is also an option on the Ducato for an extra heater matrix too be fitted to the heater unit under the dash. I believe it if fitted to vans used in colder climes as an option - pity camping car versions do not have it as standard.]

 

edit -- just had a look for parts - they exist on older parts list (2003) but not latest updated lists. I am wondering now if it is something Fiat discontinued or maybe never went into service.

[Derek Uzzell]

The specification of a vehicle can vary significantly according to its target marketplace and, as Brambles suggests, the manufacturer's full parts-list can provide useful information. In the 1980s, on one of my VW Golfs I used headlight mounting-frames intended for VW "Rabbits" marketed in the USA where, at that time, regulations demanded new vehicles have standardised-pattern sealed-beam headlamps. This allowed me to fit Cibie headlight-units replacing the Golf's atrocious Hella originals.

 

The handbook for the Ford Transit model on which my Hobby motorhome is based describes an auxiliary heater fed from the vehicle' fuel tank and I note that the 2004 Transit advertising brochure mentions "rear compartment heating" as an option on certain minibus and people-carrier models. Hobby's 2005 English-language brochure says that all Transit-based motorhomes have "additional heating" as part of the Ford Flex Package (as fitted to my vehicle). Exactly what this is I've never satisfactorily established and the German Hobby dealer couldn't say. As the same Hobby brochure refers to the wheel-trims that are also part of Flex Package as "(spare) wheel cover", it may simply be a mistake in the brochure.

 

Mention has already been made of auxiliary blown-air heaters that connect to the motorhome's engine coolant system and several versions are marketed by CAK Tanks Ltd, costing from around £150 to £200. On a motorhome not designed with this type of heater in mind, fitting could be fun!

 

Webasto and Eberspacher both offer diesel-fuelled blown-air heaters that could be retro-fitted, though one would need to allow around £1000 (plus installation costs) for even the most basic models.

 

Not sure about the practicality of carioca's inverter idea as a 500W fan heater (which I think is as small as one can get) would draw well over 40 Amps from the battery. That's a lot of drain on the motorhomes alternator. I did meet a motorcaravanner in France recently who was running a microwave oven via an inverter, but he had the biggest leisure-battery I have ever seen (I think he said 200Ah), plus a large generator to back it up. If anyone uses an inverter-driven electric heater, it would be interesting to know.

 

Michele's Bessacarr has a Truma C-Series gas heater that is designed for safe operation in a moving vehicle. Her motorhome's present wiring system may prevent this happening and, to use the gas heater legally in France while travelling, the gas system would need to include Truma's "SecuMotion" regulator and gas-hose. However, despite the safety implications of running gas appliances while travelling being self-evident, this remains a viable option. As the SecuMotion regulator/hose costs little more than a traditional 30mbar regulator/hose, and allows considerable savings to be made compared with an 'engine coolant' auxiliary heater, it's very likely that the latter type of heater will become increasingly rare on motorhomes.

[chatterdog]

try trawling the web for wagon accessories, you used to be able to get an aux heater that worked via the cig lighter, or they might even have something better these days. I used to have one in an old bedford horsebox some years ago.

[Dave Newell]

"Not sure about the practicality of carioca's inverter idea as a 500W fan heater (which I think is as small as one can get) would draw well over 40 Amps from the battery. That's a lot of drain on the motorhomes alternator. I did meet a motorcaravanner in France recently who was running a microwave oven via an inverter, but he had the biggest leisure-battery I have ever seen (I think he said 200Ah), plus a large generator to back it up. If anyone uses an inverter-driven electric heater, it would be interesting to know."

 

Hi Derek, the Waeco "easy cool" range of roof mounted air con units include a heater unit (wattage varies according to model but the smallest one is, I believe, 800Watts) and if the 12 Volt option has been taken it is designed to run from the alternator via a 1500Watt inverter that comes as part of the kit. I've always felt this was a bit of a heavy load for the alternator to produce continuously but Waeco seem satisfied that it is ok and I haven't heard of any premature alternator failures. Bear in mind that the air con side of things can also be run in 12 Volt mode while driving and that takes 1000 Watts or around 83 Amps at 12 Volts.

 

D.