ajpepe72 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I have a vw motorhome, and since owning it (2009) have gone through 2 numax leisure batteries. These batteries have been looked after, kept topped up with a multistage charger when at home, and i also have a 100w solar panel with mppt regulator to help when camping. when both batteries were new (not used together, one lasted 2 years and second has lasted 2 years), i used to be able to run the fridge and occasionally the stereo from friday afternoon (already down to temp from mains at home) until sunday morning at which point the battery would be down to around 12.2volts (this was before the solar panel was installed), now however im lucky if it lasts 24hours, after 24 hours the battery reads 12.4 volts at rest but as soon as the fridge tries to fire up the battery voltage drops rapidly to around 9.9 volts so the fridge voltage cutout stops it from starting. Its a waeco cr50 compressor fridge and has an average hourly usage of around 1.7ah. So, im of the conclusion that its time for a new battery but am a bit torn, i have been looking at the alphaline dc31 125ah deep cycle battery at £85, but then have read good things about the banner 95901 130ah battery but it's £130. Is the banner really worth the extra, and how much better is it than the alphaline ? the one thing i like about the banner is the ability to top up the chambers, wheras the alphaline is a sealed unit. it would be interesting to know if theelectrolite levels on both my old numax's are what have caused their demise. Opinions anyone :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Be prepared for conflicting advice! The constant draining of the battery is probably what killed them off. There are a lot of threads on here about how low they can go before they are permanently damaged. But the solar panel should help to keep it topped up. Is the Banner going to last longer under that strain? I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 conflicting advise about to appear. lol. The Banner is a semi traction design where as the numax is basically a starter type battery of budget quality but not necessarily at budget pricing. The Banner should outlast the batteries you have mentioned which are all basically starter batteries. The penalty will be having to top up the Banner occassionally which for many is a bonus not a penatly. No battrey likes to be discharged deeply loads of times but to give you some guide line figures you are comparing say 100 cycles of the numax to 300 for the banner. It might be worth considering a gel leisure battery which although a lot more expensive will cope with the repeated discharges. I also certainly would consider two batteries instead of one to in effect half the depth of discharges. The down side is if a VW I am not sure of the size of your alternator and if it is man enough to cope with extra batteries. Another possibilty is AGM batteries but again quality ones and not budget. The down side with AGM is you also cannot top them up. So looking at basic figures, your fridge is say 2 ah for 20 hours a day near as damn it. 40Ah a day. You need a battery twice that capacity at say 80 AH just to power the fridge for 24 hours. For two day you need 2 x 80Ah batteries. Add on other usage and 2 x 100 Ah is preferable. So going for expensive batteries will solve the problem, but weighing up that murdering batteries through unintentional neglect is a high risk and you lose so much value I am inclined to suggest you use a Banner battery, keep it topped up and looked after and should last twice as long as the Numax batteries have, if not longer, with your past style of use. Just my thoughts translated into text on the fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Also taking into account he budget battereis tend to have capacity values stated which are higher than their real value then comparing with the dc31 125Ah you would probably be looking at a Banner 115Ah so is a bit cheaper than the 130Ah. What capacity rating where the Numax batteries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajpepe72 Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 Thanks for that brambles , that was kind of what I'm thinking. I can fit two batteries in no problem. So the next question is,how are the alphalines (dc31) , purely down to budget I could fit a single banner or for an extra £35 could get 2 x dc31's. The numax's were both 110ah. The solar tends to put around 2ah most of the day but around 4.5 ah around 11am to 2pm (sun permitting) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajpepe72 Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 Pretty sure my alternator is 120 amp. And my cabling from starter to leisure battery is rated at 130 amp. I think the banner I was looking at is the 115ah one (rated at 20hrs) the 135ah is the 100hr figure, not quite sure what these hour figures relate to though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 This may help with the battery ‘rating’ figures http://www.dcbattery.com/faq.html Independent tests have shown Banner “Energy Bull” batteries to be well built and able to provide a performance that matches the company’s ‘rating’ claims. Banner ‘leisure’ batteries are factory-fitted nowadays by several major motorhome manufacturers. As far as I’m aware, no independent test results are available for “Alphaline” batteries, nor are they chosen by motorhome manufacturers as original equipment. On that basis a Banner “Energy Bull” battery should be a less ‘risky’ choice than an Alphaline equivalent. However that doesn’t mean that opting for an Alphaline product would be a ‘bad’ choice - it’s just that there’s less credible information available to justify that choice. Factoring cost into the purchasing equation makes offering advice far more difficult. As you rightly say, you can buy two Alphaline batteries for not a great deal more than a single Banner battery and, if you believe a 200Ah capacity would be beneficial, two Alphalines might be the better bet. Alternatively, if you are prepared to spend around £170, you might pick an Energy Bull 96051 that would provide more Ah capacity than the 95901 and allow you to keep an eye on the electrolyte level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Good summing up by Derek. Nicely put, and my personal choice would be to go for the largest Banner my budget would allow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajpepe72 Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 That helps a lot, I'd be looking at around £170 for the two alphalines anyway , so will investigate the larger banner . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajpepe72 Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 The banner 96051 is £169 delivered and is 135ah, the alphas are are prob more like 100ah each so would be 200ah for £165. So are we saying the alphalines dc31 are as the numax, just a glorified car battery? I'm thinking of adding a second 100w solar panel anyway so I guess total capacity is less of an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajpepe72 Posted August 1, 2014 Author Share Posted August 1, 2014 Have emailed a reseller who stocks both alphaline and banner to see what their take was and received this reply. Thank you for your email, in response to your email the Alphaline brand is a very good range DC has 500 life cycles and is only deep cycle and has different plates inside to a normal engine start battery. The Alphaline range is made by Atlas and has a 0.05% failure rate, we sell hundreds of thousands of this range and we supply them with a 4 year warranty for the battery failing. The DC31 is a true deep cycle leisure battery 500cycles 4 year warranty 125ah (20min) Just to let you know this range is supplied commercially to a national plant dealer for there mobile traffic light units and has been tested against other brands including the one you have indicated, the DC31 came out on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 ajpepe72 - 2014-08-01 10:07 AM Have emailed a reseller who stocks both alphaline and banner to see what their take was and received this reply. Thank you for your email, in response to your email the Alphaline brand is a very good range DC has 500 life cycles and is only deep cycle and has different plates inside to a normal engine start battery. The Alphaline range is made by Atlas and has a 0.05% failure rate, we sell hundreds of thousands of this range and we supply them with a 4 year warranty for the battery failing. The DC31 is a true deep cycle leisure battery 500cycles 4 year warranty 125ah (20min) Just to let you know this range is supplied commercially to a national plant dealer for there mobile traffic light units and has been tested against other brands including the one you have indicated, the DC31 came out on top. There are lies, damn lies, and statistics........and Battery sellers and rebadgers. http://www.atlasbx.co.kr/eng/product/product_list/Product_View_SC.do click on the link to download the catalog and you wil get more info on the Atlas range. You can draw your own conclusions which battery it is and also what the capcity really is. In it's class they are are very good batteries. If indeed it is the XDC range then that is a different ball game, but I suspect it is the standard DC range which is a marne battery. I would love to be proved wrong. Many use the Atlas.Alphaline batteries and have no issues. They are perfect for light users and what I call coffee stops but for full cycling you really need a decent battery and in the Atlas range would have to be the XDC31. Where the supplier gets 125Ah and 20 mins I have no idea. It should be rated at C/20 rate which is the Amperehours divided by 20hours. When looking at cycle life one should alwas establish what depth of discharge (dod). Many specify life cycles at only 20% dod which is just artistic licence. See the Atlas graphs -- matches 500 cycles for 20% dod for a DC31. So what it comes down to is the Alphaline DC31 an Atlas DC31 or an Atlas XDC 31. In both cases it is 100 Ah not 125Ah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Any clearer? The more information you get, the harder the decision. Whichever you choose I think the key point is to monitor the battery's condition and don't discharge it too deeply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajpepe72 Posted August 1, 2014 Author Share Posted August 1, 2014 Haha, no not really, I have emailed the reseller again to try and clarify, interestingly on the atlas site you linked to Brambles, there is a pdf link to the bumph for the atlas batteries. On a chart they list the DC31 as having around 1100 cycles at 60% dod, and the XDC31 at 2000 cycles at 100% dod ? Confusing all this is ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajpepe72 Posted August 1, 2014 Author Share Posted August 1, 2014 Just had a reply to say its neither the atlas dc31 or Xdc31 but a special made for alphaline. Their reply to which atlas version (DC31 or XDC31) it is : The Alphaline spec is 125ah deep cycle only, different to the e-nex range. that is shown here. But Atlasbx is the manufacturer. Regards, Paul also regarding the lifecycle figures : 50% standard for lead acid and gel, odyssey you can discharge to 80% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 ajpepe72 - 2014-08-01 4:07 PM Haha, no not really, I have emailed the reseller again to try and clarify, interestingly on the atlas site you linked to Brambles, there is a pdf link to the bumph for the atlas batteries. On a chart they list the DC31 as having around 1100 cycles at 60% dod, and the XDC31 at 2000 cycles at 100% dod ? Confusing all this is ! Sorry but you are not reading the graphs correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajpepe72 Posted August 1, 2014 Author Share Posted August 1, 2014 Ooops, i'm not am I :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajpepe72 Posted August 2, 2014 Author Share Posted August 2, 2014 Kind of decided that rather than take a chance on a couple of alphalines, or a 135ah banner which may not do me capacity wise (i spend a lot of weekends without hookup), that it may be worth spending the extra for this http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/leisure-batteries/195ah-banner-energy-bull-leisure-battery/ Should give me a comparable capacity to the alphalines but in a proven battery. on the banner website it says mains charging should be a voltage of 14.2 -14.4v, this is fine for my solar setup which cuts charge at 14.4 volts, but my 3 stage 20amp mains charger stops charge when battery voltage reaches 14.8volts, can you see this as a problem ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 The cut off of your home battery charger should not be a problem, but would not leave it permanently connected. This is unneccessary and indeed not actually desireable for any battery unless specifically designed as a standby battery. You do not need to keep a battery permanently 100% charged but only occasionally take it to full charge. You can just connect the charger as required when the voltage drops or indeed leave on a time switch to switch on once a month for say 8 hours. A lot depends on how quickly the batteries are drained by standby currents of things connected. One thing you may now want to consider is fitting two batteries instead of a single battery. It may work out cheaper anyway as 90Ah or 100Ah batteries may be available at a competative price as very popular. Buying two from a supplier will often result in some discount if you ask and helps if you tell them a sensible price you want them for. Why go for two? Two smaller batteries are often easier to fit in space available as end up taller. Also they are lighter to man handle but one advantage is when they age and finally start to fail, the one which is failing can be disconnected and you can at least carry on with limited use of course with the remaining working battery. That is a big plus in years to come. I am starting to ramble on so will stop here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajpepe72 Posted August 2, 2014 Author Share Posted August 2, 2014 Just to throw another manufacturer into the mix..Trojan ? Am i right in thinking that these are one of the best deep cycle batteries available ? looking at the cost of a single 190ah banner (£200) or two 100ah banners (£220), i could get two T105 6v trojans and wire them in series to have 225ah for £230. or two of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-Volt-Leoch-TROJAN-T105-225-AH-Traction-Battery-/170680471177?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item27bd594e89 for £220 for 225ah ? From what I have read they can take very heavy depth of discharge and some people have had the same batteries for over 10 years ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.