Guest ChrisB Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 After last night's frost warning for the north I have just drained down and pumped out (I hope) all the water from the 'van. My manual advises opening all taps (not frogetting shower hose) and leaving the pump running (after draining tanks and hot water cylinder) for 30 secs. Is there anything else I should do? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Does your heater have a drain valve. Our Truma has a yellow lever you have to move to an upright position to drain it. Worth checking your instruction manuals if you do. Or, if you're really paranoid about draining down, have a look at a Floe. I must say I'm not convinced myself but some may see a benefit. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 All water outlets (ie. taps and shower-control) should be left in their fully open position after draining. If an outlet is 'mixer' type, the mixing-lever should be centralised (and left fully open.) Worth taking the shower-hose off its operating control if that's simple to do: otherwise lower the shower-head into the shower-tray. A couple of earlier threads that mat be useful: http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=26046&start=1 http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=21385&posts=10 (What make/model/year of motorhome do you own? I waded through some of your earlier postings and, although I now know you got it in July, I didn't find out what it was! It's not that I'm nosey - just that some motorhomes may be trickier to drain down than others, or be particularly vulnerable to frost damage, or there's some wizard wheeze an owner has come up with to aid draining. But, if the motorhome is not identified, such information can't be passed on.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I have an external shower which I had never used so forgot about it when draining down last year, It is ruined. Do not forget the external shower. Harvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 One thing I'll do this time(but haven't in the past)and that is remove the little filter,gauze inserts from inside the taps...I didn't notice it at the time but the insert in the one tap had/has split..and it *may* have been down to frost last winter...?... ..I think while I'm at it,this time I'll also remove the shower head & hose and maybe even look at what's involved in removing the pump(..or at least remove any vulnerable filter, if present..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 A claimed advantage of the "Floe" product Keith mentioned earlier is that it should blow water out of a diaphragm-type pump as well as from pipework, taps, etc. It's recommended that in-line water filters (eg. Whale's "Aquasource Clear") should be removed as part of the winter-draining procedure. I wouldn't have thought that a split gauze-insert in a tap would have been due to frost damage but, if you can remove the inserts easily, why not do it? My Hobby's taps don't have them, so I can't usefully comment. The important thing is to not have the tap's body full of water, as that's just asking for trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Chris when drained down adding this and running through the pump helps if you do have really bad cold weather if you use over winter you could use in the toilet flush tank. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/140660779342?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 As we use our van all year round after draining down we use diluted windscreen wash in the toilet fush Halfords , B & Q etc useually have 3 for 2 in 5 ltrs on offer at this time of year Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Derek Uzzell - 2012-10-08 12:04 PM ... I wouldn't have thought that a split gauze-insert in a tap would have been due to frost damage but, if you can remove the inserts easily, why not do it? My Hobby's taps don't have them, so I can't usefully comment. The important thing is to not have the tap's body full of water, as that's just asking for trouble. I hadn't given them any thought...until the flow from one tap didn't seem right..and when I unscewed the "insert" I was suprised to see that it comprised of layer of several(3?) separate gauze filters... http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=28578&posts=5 ..and I suppose it wouldn't take many "droplets"(held in place by surface tension),to split it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Some of my house's bathroom taps originally had this type of screw-in fitting in their spouts and all of the gauzes fell to bits over time. The main function of the fitting is to straighten the water-flow and minimise splashing. The replacements I used have a less complex plastic 'grid' and no gauzes. I admire the surface-tension theory, but I think gravity would clear the gauzes of any water retained in them. If that were not so, and water stayed in the gauzes even after the tap were empty, one might logically expect all the gauzes in your taps to have been ruptured by frost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HymerVan Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 My new van has a diaphragm pump whereas the old one had a submersible pump. Dealer draining advice is basically to open all valves and allow water to drain by gravity (which is more or less what you do with a submersible pump) then run pump by opening tap(s) until all water driven out. Drained down by this method in September but was amazed how long it took for the pump not be be passing water as evidenced by the sight glass in it. I reckon about 5 litres of "extra" water came out after gravity only draining. Makes you wonder if you can ever effectively drain fully a system with a submersible pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HymerVan Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 My new van has a diaphragm pump whereas the old one had a submersible pump. Dealer draining advice is basically to open all valves and allow water to drain by gravity (which is more or less what you do with a submersible pump) then run pump by opening tap(s) until all water driven out. Drained down by this method in September but was amazed how long it took for the pump not be be passing water as evidenced by the sight glass in it. I reckon about 5 litres of "extra" water came out after gravity only draining. Makes you wonder if you can ever effectively drain fully a system with a submersible pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 If you don't open the taps when you open the drain valve(s), water in the pipework leading back from the taps won't be able to escape. That's why, when you open the taps and run the pump, you get all that "extra" water coming out of the taps. Gravity can only do so much. Think about filling a bottle with water, then inverting it so that its 'mouth' is below the surface of a bowl full of water. Despite gravity 'pulling' at the water in the bottle, the water won't come out as air can't get in. Unless you open the taps to let air into the pipework, gravity won't cause that pipework to empty. I don't know what technique you employed when you had a motorhome with a submerged pump, but, unless you opened the taps at the draining stage, I can't see how gravity would have caused the water in the pipework to empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Derek Uzzell - 2012-10-08 12:04 PM The important thing is to not have the tap's body full of water, as that's just asking for trouble. Similar to having a human's body full of alcohol .... :D (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Mel B - 2012-10-09 10:41 PM Derek Uzzell - 2012-10-08 12:04 PM The important thing is to not have the tap's body full of water, as that's just asking for trouble. Similar to having a human's body full of alcohol .... :D (lol) Or a small motorhome full of heavy 'essentials'. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HymerVan Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Sorry perhaps I didn't make myself clear the taps were open in the central position in both cases.The point I was trying to make was that it is difficult to expell ALL the water from the system but the diaphram pump system seems to do this better than the submersible which cannot be run for long in an empty tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 If you have difficulty fully draining down with a submersible pump, is it possible to remove the outlet pipe & let the water drain back into the tank ????????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 How completely a motorhome's water system will drain via gravity will depend on the system's design. If the system's drain-tap is near to, and 'upstream' of, a non-return valve (as will be fitted to a system with a submerged pump) or near to, and upstream of, a diaphragm pump, and the drain-tap is positioned at a low point in the system where the water in the system can drain towards the tap, then the system should drain well. If the drain-tap (assuming there is one!) is poorly positioned, then draining via gravity will be poor. A system with a submerged pump may, due to the pump's position, be less easy to drain completely compared to a system with a diaphragm pump. (It should help if the submerged pump can be fished out of the fresh-water tank to allow water in the pipework leading from the pump's outlet to drain towards the drain-tap.) Once a water-pump (submerged or diaphragm) begins to suck air - as it will once the fresh-water tank is empty - it's ability to pump out residual water from the 'upstream' pipework will be compromised. My Hobby has an internal floor-mounted fresh-water tank. Its drain-tap is close to its floor-mounted SHURflo diaphragm pump's outlet and all the water pipework is above the floor. Opening the drain-tap and all the water outlets (taps, shower) causes most of the water in the pipework to drain via gravity and siphonic action. After draining has visibly ceased, closing the drain-tap and running the water-pump results in a small amount of water and air being ejected from the water outlets, but nothing like the estimated 5 litres emerging from the water outlets of HymerVan's Fifer. I've now re-read HymerVan's original posting and noted the passage: "...was amazed how long it took for the pump not be be passing water as evidenced by the sight glass in it. I reckon about 5 litres of "extra" water came out after gravity only draining..." I'm guessing that the "sight glass" is the filter-unit that screws on to the inlet of a SHURflo pump. If that's correct, and water is passing through the filter-unit when the water-pump is run, then this water must be coming from the fresh-water tank. Being a PVC, it's probable that a Fifer has an external below-floor fresh-water tank, with the pipe from the water-pump's inlet leading into the tank through the motorhome's floor. If draining of the pipework 'upstream' of the water-pump had been completed (and the fresh-water tank had also been drained) and running the water-pump then drew 5 litres of water from the fresh-water tank, this must indicate that the fresh-water tank still contained water after it had been drained. I'm tempted to say "So what - that's commonplace", as many fresh-water tanks will not drain completely and it's easy to envisage a scenario where the water-pump's pick-up position in the tank is such that, even after the tank has been 'emptied', the pump's pick-up can still lift water remaining in the tank. This is a system characteristic and, if East Neuk had been perverse enough to install a submerged pump in the fresh-water tank, the effect would have been little different, with the submerged pump able to draw water from the not-completely-empty tank in the same way that the diaphragm pump can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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